London attack
- Thread starter Woots
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The GOV and media also need to stop calling these people radicals , as its radicals that have made this country what it is , eg the chartist movement of 1838 , the suffrage movement of the 1920s , the feminist movement of the early 60s and stonewall . Radicalism is genneraly a positive feature of humanity . Two words we need to lose when describing people that carried out this attack and similar atrocities, terrororist , as in specific peoples eyes they are the heroes, and radicals as we do not want to stifle radical thinking from reasonable citizens.
Enoch Powell was right! It's a shame we didn't listen then.
Mike
Mike
Finisterre said:ranski said:
what you are wanting is vengeance and
I do agree that vengeance is attractive.
But justice is the bigger beast. It is vengeance plus. In theory you get your vengeance, your recompense and a civil society without feuds. Some times you even get rehabilitation, which is a big bonus.
Punishment of communities for the misbehaviour of an individual is unjust.
You know that really.
yep, but trying to deal with an immediate and very threatening problem with a medium to long term solution may not work.
as others have said, some of the posts on here are well worded, but I suspect they are rather academic in their origin. if you have lived in certain communities, or held down certain occupations, your perspective may be justifiably skewed.
1066 Country
JaEdBa, 100% on the money as i believe some have confused vengeance with how to achieve social accountability?.
Having worked in around 80 countries on this planet, a high number of them being high risk, i found the majority only want the best for their family & friends, to live happily & enjoy life... & these people put their lives on the line to protect a white collar worker who doesn't have the luxury of calling in military strike when things go tits up.
I never want Vengeance, I need a system that maintains the values & best interests of everyone in the clear majority, this is the bigger justice, not lots of Neville Chamberlain speeches.
Having worked in around 80 countries on this planet, a high number of them being high risk, i found the majority only want the best for their family & friends, to live happily & enjoy life... & these people put their lives on the line to protect a white collar worker who doesn't have the luxury of calling in military strike when things go tits up.
I never want Vengeance, I need a system that maintains the values & best interests of everyone in the clear majority, this is the bigger justice, not lots of Neville Chamberlain speeches.
neville?
half the problem is we have made massive leaps forward in science and technology but then, on a subject like this, people wish to try and avoid using basic probability to determine a solution, and i'm talking the sort of maths that is taught in schools.
how can we possible take that blatant pattern and use it to our advantage....we must consider the good of a theoretical individual over the good of a known and indigenous group. :?
how can we possible take that blatant pattern and use it to our advantage....we must consider the good of a theoretical individual over the good of a known and indigenous group. :?
This is an interesting read just found on the Internet.
I don't know if its all factually correct but even if not the message is thought provoking.
Long but worth it.
"A German's View on Islam - worth reading.
This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.
'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.
In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.
In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.
As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it.
And we are silent..."
I don't know if its all factually correct but even if not the message is thought provoking.
Long but worth it.
"A German's View on Islam - worth reading.
This is by far the best explanation of the Muslim terrorist situation I have ever read.
His references to past history are accurate and clear.
Not long, easy to understand, and well worth the read.
The author of this email is Dr. Emanuel Tanya, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism.
'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'
We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.
The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people..
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
Now Islamic prayers have been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario , and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?) The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.
In Australia , and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem (see the attachment), just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.
In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas refuse to acknowledge British law.
As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts -- the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it.
And we are silent..."
where are these UK no-go areas then?
Finisterre said:
define "no go"? I used to live in an area where my girlfriend of the time was regularly abused just fetching milk on a sunday morning. provocation? young, blond and attractive as far as I could tell. it is the minority, as the lengthy post suggested, but some of the s**t they said was utterly vile.
I don't know Tower Hamlets but I do know about northern cities, the poor parts in particular. I have worked for various Pakistani landlords around West Yorkshire, mainly Bradford - and a couple of close friends have been working repossessing houses from Liverpool to Hull and everywhere in between for the last half dozen years.
I am pretty sure we would have noticed a no-go area.
I have absolutely no time for Islam as a religion/ philosophy / cultural framework/ way of life but I think that article was scaremongering with divisive highlights.
:roll:
I am pretty sure we would have noticed a no-go area.
I have absolutely no time for Islam as a religion/ philosophy / cultural framework/ way of life but I think that article was scaremongering with divisive highlights.
:roll:
JaEdBa said:
I don't doubt that Islam and rough-arse-scum-bags mix badly. Or that the level of misogyny in Islam is offensive, even vile. There is plenty of proof that young muslim men can be racist. I still have my doubts about no-go. There are plenty of estates where the bunch outside the bookies will abuse anyone walking past. Probably incorporating race, religion, obesity level or what have you if they get chance. Are they no-go areas too?
I agree on the silent spectators, the concern is being looped in with the EDL or similar.
Let's be a secular country, but equally allow people to practice their faith without pushing it onto others. I include all religions in that, including our indigenous one which has its own bloody history.
Let's be a secular country, but equally allow people to practice their faith without pushing it onto others. I include all religions in that, including our indigenous one which has its own bloody history.