Lineker. Winner or Woketard w@nker?

[coldel]

The reason for using boats is they know they have very little chance of being granted asylum if the apply legally, but once here if they are refused, there is little chance of deportation.

This is incorrect. The governments own data shows that of the irregular immigrants on small boats that arrived, over half were granted legal asylum status. It also shows deportations of those not granted, sending them back to point of origin.

The policy is nothing to do with stopping slavery or people smugglers or any such heroic rhetoric, it is about as ever two things, winning an election and money.

The Tories appealed to the nationalist cohort in this country during the previous election, in effect promising 'we are an island that makes our own rules' and small boats makes a mockery of this. Additionally, the system the government have in place to deal with irregular immigration (which happens globally in every country, this isn't uniquely a UK thing) is not fit for purpose. A large proportion of all irregular immigrants on small boats are still waiting to be processed.

All that aside, that wasn't really the point of Linekers tweet. It is the 'panic the nation' language used by Braverman to dehumanise, to make them the enemy, to make all Tory voting nationlists who are potentially leaning away come back onside.

 

[Nanu]

You state quite correctly that over half arriving on small boats were granted asylum. You appear to be assuming that as a result, they are genuine asylum seekers. (Apologies if I am incorrect)

Just to put that into context however, when an Albanian national applies for asylum in EU countries, they have legislation that deem Albania to be a safe country and as a result have zero tolerance and they are sent back to Albania.

In 2022, just over 12,000 arrived in the UK with approx 55% of Albanians applying for asylum in the UK being granted with only a few hundred returned.

Just because the percentage of asylum claims being granted is high in the UK it doesn't necessarily prove they are genuine. More like we have a very poor immigration judiciary, exceptional lawyers or a very lax asylum system when compared with the EU. I suspect the latter.

 

[Nanu]

You also suggest that Braverman was trying to dehumanise asylum seekers and make them the enemy. Not correct. She was trying against sever opposition from out leftist civil service and immigration lawyers to stop economic migrants, who have no right to be here and game the system from coming.

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

The UK have always been welcoming genuine asylum seekers and hopefully always will be.

 

[Chris_D]

You also suggest that Braverman was trying to dehumanise asylum seekers and make them the enemy. Not correct. She was trying against sever opposition from out leftist civil service and immigration lawyers to stop economic migrants, who have no right to be here and game the system from coming.

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

The UK have always been welcoming genuine asylum seekers and hopefully always will be.

Good synopsis.
UK govt needs to get their genuine/fake asylum-seeker filter together asap as it is patently obvious that it's being abused by economic migrants and Albanian criminal freeloaders.
I currently live in an area of NL where if I bike 15 minutes down the road it's migrant-central. They stand out a country mile and the Dutch govt sees that they all receive money, housing, clothes, medical insurances and food. The 'furnished apartments' they receive all have TV in Arabic as well as a specially-decorated prayer room/space.
When I see them on the street harrassing Dutchies, women and kids, singing 'Allah u snackbar' at the top of their voices, stealing sh!t from the Lidl everytime I go shopping there then I'm really not surprised that we had a landslide right-wing party victory in the local elections this week!
Admittedly, that victory was due mostly to the resistance to the Nitrogen-reduction debacle and support for Dutch farmers but there is also a LOT of sentiment for nationalistic policies that the BBB party et al have as part of their political charters such as maintaining Dutch values, identity and traditions and curtailing migrant numbers.

Answer me this: why is it that the vast majority of migrants are young men?
Where are the women and kids? Anyone got the stats on that??

 

[sars]

All that aside, that wasn't really the point of Linekers tweet. It is the 'panic the nation' language used by Braverman to dehumanise, to make them the enemy, to make all Tory voting nationlists who are potentially leaning away come back onside.

This

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

A few years ago, just after we voted to leave the EU, I was in Germany, talking to a German colleague, he couldn’t believe why we as a nation would want to leave the EU. Pretty much every German I’ve spoken to then and since, thought we were crazy to leave. Anyway, he couldn’t understand how we were convinced to leave, my response was similar to Gary Linekers, how did Hitler get his followers to massacre over six million Jews, it didn’t just happen overnight, it was a progressive, ever increasing rhetoric and the demonisation of the Jews during the 1930’s. We had years of the Conservatives and their press blaming everything that was wrong with this country on the European Union and the only way we can make everything better was to leave. Now that we’ve left, they need a new enemy to divert and distract from the realities of our economic issues and whom better that Asylum seekers who have no voice. I think that’s what Lineker was trying to say with the limitations of Twitter.

 

[Chris_D]

All that aside, that wasn't really the point of Linekers tweet. It is the 'panic the nation' language used by Braverman to dehumanise, to make them the enemy, to make all Tory voting nationlists who are potentially leaning away come back onside.

This

To liken the current situation to 1930's Germany which resulted in 6 million Jews being exterminated was just ignorant. Many will object, yes but that comment was sick.

A few years ago, just after we voted to leave the EU, I was in Germany, talking to a German colleague, he couldn’t believe why we as a nation would want to leave the EU. Pretty much every German I’ve spoken to then and since, thought we were crazy to leave. Anyway, he couldn’t understand how we were convinced to leave, my response was similar to Gary Linekers, how did Hitler get his followers to massacre over six million Jews, it didn’t just happen overnight, it was a progressive, ever increasing rhetoric and the demonisation of the Jews during the 1930’s. We had years of the Conservatives and their press blaming everything that was wrong with this country on the European Union and the only way we can make everything better was to leave. Now that we’ve left, they need a new enemy to divert and distract from the realities of our economic issues and whom better that Asylum seekers who have no voice. I think that’s what Lineker was trying to say with the limitations of Twitter.

Oh ffs, seriously???!!! How to causal-deflect, whitewash, generalise and legitimise WOKEness and spurious immigration!
And if you haven't heard already, Twitter doesn't have many limitations these days.
Keep up!

 

[sars]

“All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent”
We should then add, and vilify them that do speak up

 

[pvr]

The same approach that Russia is using now with success to their population. The West is coming to get them so we have to attack before they do.

The German comparison in the run up to Hitler is something that is repeated by so many countries over the years, and entire population groups that will buy into it.

 

[TitanTim]

The same approach that Russia is using now with success to their population. The West is coming to get them so we have to attack before they do.

The German comparison in the run up to Hitler is something that is repeated by so many countries over the years, and entire population groups that will buy into it.

You do wonder in this day and age how much news is censored in Russia and how seemingly the Russian population is being brainwashed and lied too with regime tosh. I'm amazed their isn't more backlash against Putin than there has already been, especially as he is now a signed up certified criminal.

Still hoping the day will come when Putin will be overthrown from within and him and his cohorts are handed over for a well overdue criminal trial. Can't wait to see this happen.

Tim.

 

[pvr]

I spent a year and a bit working in Russia, they are definitely brainwashed there and are not the most pleasant to be amongst. There is little hope that he would get overthrown from within and even if he suddenly died by falling from a hospital window, the next president is going to be the same type again.

 

[coldel]

You state quite correctly that over half arriving on small boats were granted asylum. You appear to be assuming that as a result, they are genuine asylum seekers. (Apologies if I am incorrect)

Just to put that into context however, when an Albanian national applies for asylum in EU countries, they have legislation that deem Albania to be a safe country and as a result have zero tolerance and they are sent back to Albania.

In 2022, just over 12,000 arrived in the UK with approx 55% of Albanians applying for asylum in the UK being granted with only a few hundred returned.

Just because the percentage of asylum claims being granted is high in the UK it doesn't necessarily prove they are genuine. More like we have a very poor immigration judiciary, exceptional lawyers or a very lax asylum system when compared with the EU. I suspect the latter.

And what empirical evidence do you have for this aside from your own disbelief and incredulity?
Just because you dont think the UK process is right, doesn't mean it isn't.

 

[Nanu]

You really must get over the Brexit issue sars!

We left so we could have sovereignty over our own country and let our elected politicians and judges make decisions on our behalf.

If we didn't like those decisions, then we can kick them out, unlike the EU officials who we didn't vote for.

If you really think this country is capable of demonising refugees, genuine or otherwise which will result in anything like the holocaust, then I feel sorry for you. As for them having no voice, try telling that to the people in towns and cities across the country who have had hotels taken over without being consulted or to the thousands of staff at said hotels who without any notice have been kicked out of their jobs as a result.

 

[Nanu]

And what empirical evidence do you have for this aside from your own disbelief and incredulity?
Just because you dont think the UK process is right, doesn't mean it isn't.
[/quote]
Try this graph, produced by the unbiased BBC

 

[coldel]

...and wonderfully, that same article you pulled the chart from explains why this chart is not something you can use to just make a like for like comparison of, that Germany and France are processing refugees at an exponentially faster rate than the UK (as we are terrible at it and people are sitting in backlogs) - otherwise the chart above also ways that France takes in 10 times the amount of refugees than the uk on average, which we also know isn't true. Your assumption is not provable from this data, unless of course your pre-conceived biases want it to be so.

 

[Vornwend]

Re the reference to modern slavery. Why would someone pay thousands of pounds to people smugglers to come to this country to be then become trapped as “ slaves”. That is the point of the legislation, these people are not being forced to come here.

As for visa requirements, normally you only need a passport for departure, it’s upon arrival that you need to show a visa. Also you can apply for a tourist visa on line. If the country you’re in has access to the internet, say Albania, Pakistan or India where many are currently coming from, then you can apply.

Are you really saying you don't think modern slavery is a thing? It's the product of someone's imagination? People are not put under any duress or subject to any manipulation?

A combination of carrier sanctions and restrictive visa policies leave no other alternative than boats for many. Alternatively, and perhaps this is you view, they are all risking their lives because every single one of them is such a bad actor that they could never obtain a tourist visa as you have suggested is so easy to do?

It obviously salves your conscience to try and characterise all these people as illegitimate arrivals and I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you otherwise. Elsewhere people will continue to raise concerns about the immigration bill and it's indiscriminate effect on genuine asylum seekers or victims of modern slavery.

 

[sars]

You really must get over the Brexit issue sars!

Yes because it's going so well for us

 

[coldel]

Brexit has not yet manifested itself as its still in its infancy, I think we are all aware that it was always going to be a nightmare for trade in that time, again unless you stupidly believe Tory rhetoric about it being 'the easiest deal in history' - trade deals never are easy, and are highly complex.

But anyway back on topic though, again Nanu you misunderstand the point of Lineker's tweet. His original tweet was to simply state that the policy is awful, and certainly from a point of view of basic humanity, it is. It was only when another random user called him out of order did he state 'This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s, and I’m out of order?'

There is no reference to Nazi's or the Holocaust. What there is reference to is the rise of nationalism in 1930's Germany, of which there were many politicians involved in its growth along with a particular one that went on to lead the country into what we know as Nazi Germany. Where the leaders who were in positions of influence used language specifically to generate fear, and hatred, of a particular group of people. The idea that this policy is in some way a good thing for irregular immigrants is laughable.

Immigration has been a thing for centuries, its not new, its not an invasion. The issue here is that the government has been grossly at fault for managing it efficiently. Stop worrying about Lineker and point your ire at a government that has lurched from disaster to disaster and has taken its eye off the ball in terms of running the basics of a country in a diverse and connected world.

 

[Nanu]

You really must get over the Brexit issue sars!

Yes because it's going so well for us

It is surprisingly. Germany on the brink of recession, Have you seen the riots in France because of what Macron has been forced to do with pensions.

 

[Pondy]

Heard on the lunchtime news that asylum seekers residing in the UK (vast majority in England), waiting for the Gov to sort them out, are costing us £6,000,000 PER DAY!

Just saying! :x

 

[Nanu]

Migration has been a thing for generations but economic migrants in their thousands being hosed in hotels at huge expense to the tax payer is a new thing. Try thinking of those ex employees who have been kicked out of a job in the same hotels when they are taken over.

Genuine asylum seekers seeking refuge in this country I am in favour of. Refugees from Poland in the 30s have married into my family so I understand what it means to flee from persecution especially in the era we are discussing.

Please don't conflate genuine asylum seekers with economic migrants. The two are very much not the same.

As for modern day slavery, why would someone pay gangs thousands of pounds to become their slaves in this country?

I suppose you think Emal Kochai is a genuine refugee or a victim and deserves to come to the UK as he states he will. Or the many others who have applied for asylum in other EU countries and been refused, so try their luck here?