Lineker. Winner or Woketard w@nker?
- Thread starter Chris_D
- Start date
Hate to disagree but I do.
He speaks of the Tories demonising refugees. They don’t. They criticise economic migrants who are not genuine refugees fleeing war and persecution. I can’t recall France or Albania being riven with war from which they are fleeing.
In fact they blame these economic migrants of damaging the genuine refugees claims by flooding the system with their claims for asylum.
If we are going to discuss this complex issue, please can we separate genuine refugees which this country has always made welcome and those that wish to take advantage of our generosity by abusing the system, unlike Lineker.
He speaks of the Tories demonising refugees. They don’t. They criticise economic migrants who are not genuine refugees fleeing war and persecution. I can’t recall France or Albania being riven with war from which they are fleeing.
In fact they blame these economic migrants of damaging the genuine refugees claims by flooding the system with their claims for asylum.
If we are going to discuss this complex issue, please can we separate genuine refugees which this country has always made welcome and those that wish to take advantage of our generosity by abusing the system, unlike Lineker.
inkey$ said:
He is very observant, articulates the crux of the issue in a way that I cannot. I have voted Tory many times, but this lot of lying, scheming, patronising and scaremongering sh1tbags are just taking the pi55 out of all us and yet there are people out there who still believe them
[ref]Nanu[/ref], According to the Government’s own sources asylum seekers, of which there were 89,000 of them in 2022 (ranked 16th in Europe) and accounted for about 18% of total migrants to the UK, which includes those from Ukraine, all other migrants were visiting students or on work visas. But according to Braverman there’s 100’s of millions of them coming, which is just pure scaremongering and pandering to the right wing nationalists, as that’s all this party has left.
At the summit of the picturesque fens
They have ALL been that for 30 years or more. Nothing has changed. Only possibly the increased amount of media outlets all trying to sell inches and make a few quid, so making 'news' where there wasn't any.sars said:
Starmer and his (many ultra-left wing) cronies will be voted in next under a protest vote....."can't be worse than the last lot". Not something I am looking forward to TBH!
Nanu said:
That argument is deeply disingenuous because the government is effectively saying there are to be no legal routes for refugees (save for allowing temporary safe haven for Ukrainians) . Hence anyone arriving is denied even applying for asylum however genuine or compelling their case. Yes some of these arrivals might be economic migrants but many are not. These people are not "queue jumpers" because there is no legal queue to join. We are an island in the North Sea so its pretty much impossible for an asylum seeker to arrive here unless passing through another country - does that mean we should abdicate all of our international responsibilities and accept none?
Braverman has spoken about an invasion and the possibility of hundreds of millions arriving. It's deliberately provocative language designed to stoke fear and hatred and pander to right wing elements (rather similar to the period in history that Lineker was referring to you might say). Thankfully it's backfiring spectacularly. The policy itself won't actually achieve anything as its likely to be deemed illegal - the government knows that.
How long can the UK sustain unregulated migration? In 2018 there were 300 boat arrivals, in 2019 - 1,800, in 2020 - 8,500, in 2021 - 23,000, and in 2022 - 33,000. At that rate you can expect 100,000 a year very shortly.....What's the answer then, because you can't keep going at that rate?
Stop believing the tory politicians and press and look for yourself, from the House of Commons library
"The annual number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010. It rose steadily throughout the 2010s, then sharply in 2021 and again in 2022 to reach 74,751 applications, the highest annual number since 2002"
Small boats are just the current methodology of asylum seekers getting here, again from the library, here is where they come from
"In 2021, 42% of applicants were nationals of Middle Eastern countries, and 23% were nationals of African countries. This pattern shifted in 2022 with the largest nationality groups being Asian countries (31% of applicants) and European countries (24% of applicants).
Between 2014 and 2022, 54,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In 2021 and 2022, nearly 21,400 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
In 2022, two new routes were introduced for Ukrainians. As of December 2022, around 154,500 people had arrived under these schemes. This flow was much larger in scale than any other single forced migration flow to the UK in recent history. The number of Ukrainian refugees who arrived in the UK in 2022 was equivalent to the number of people granted refuge in the UK from all origins, in total, between 2014 and 2021"
Asylum seekers are not a significant burden on our society, many of whom want to make a better life for themselves and hopefully contribute to our society, they are not all freeloaders. We also accept far less than the majority of EU countries, we are willing to give France over £479 million over three years to stop them coming by boat, which equates to a cost of £1,800 per asylum seeker per year, but there is no potential financial return, just cost.
"The annual number of asylum applications to the UK peaked in 2002 at 84,132. After that the number fell sharply to reach a twenty-year low point of 17,916 in 2010. It rose steadily throughout the 2010s, then sharply in 2021 and again in 2022 to reach 74,751 applications, the highest annual number since 2002"
Small boats are just the current methodology of asylum seekers getting here, again from the library, here is where they come from
"In 2021, 42% of applicants were nationals of Middle Eastern countries, and 23% were nationals of African countries. This pattern shifted in 2022 with the largest nationality groups being Asian countries (31% of applicants) and European countries (24% of applicants).
Between 2014 and 2022, 54,000 people were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes. Between 2014 and 2020, 20,000 Syrians were resettled under the Vulnerable Persons Resettlement Scheme. In 2021 and 2022, nearly 21,400 people from Afghanistan were resettled or relocated to the UK through various schemes.
In 2022, two new routes were introduced for Ukrainians. As of December 2022, around 154,500 people had arrived under these schemes. This flow was much larger in scale than any other single forced migration flow to the UK in recent history. The number of Ukrainian refugees who arrived in the UK in 2022 was equivalent to the number of people granted refuge in the UK from all origins, in total, between 2014 and 2021"
Asylum seekers are not a significant burden on our society, many of whom want to make a better life for themselves and hopefully contribute to our society, they are not all freeloaders. We also accept far less than the majority of EU countries, we are willing to give France over £479 million over three years to stop them coming by boat, which equates to a cost of £1,800 per asylum seeker per year, but there is no potential financial return, just cost.
Well its worth a look at the numbers, the prediction of it 'hitting 100,000 a year shortly' cant possibly be correct, given that we are already seeing a plateau in the trend i.e. the growth from 2020 to 2021 to 2022 is not climbing its reducing. There are only a few data points but it looks like a typical S curve.
Interestingly if you read the actual government numbers it shows some obvious issues...
They cannot process people quick enough, either understaffed (most likely) or poorly set up (also highly likely) to handle the numbers. Interestingly, over half of all irregular small boat arrivals that are processed are granted asylum, in that their reason to travel was valid. To date, nearly two thirds of migrants are left unprocessed and they are sat waiting.
The issue here isn't that 'we cant keep going at this rate' because, properly managed of course we can, its just that the government rather than owning up and saying their immigration services are underfunded and poorly managed, decide instead to convince the nation that we are under some sort of attack - hence the language. Many migrants enter into gaps in our labour market, pay taxation, contribute economically. Given that as a nation historically we are all migrants of some sort, its unsurprising.
Interestingly if you read the actual government numbers it shows some obvious issues...
They cannot process people quick enough, either understaffed (most likely) or poorly set up (also highly likely) to handle the numbers. Interestingly, over half of all irregular small boat arrivals that are processed are granted asylum, in that their reason to travel was valid. To date, nearly two thirds of migrants are left unprocessed and they are sat waiting.
The issue here isn't that 'we cant keep going at this rate' because, properly managed of course we can, its just that the government rather than owning up and saying their immigration services are underfunded and poorly managed, decide instead to convince the nation that we are under some sort of attack - hence the language. Many migrants enter into gaps in our labour market, pay taxation, contribute economically. Given that as a nation historically we are all migrants of some sort, its unsurprising.
Asylum seekers are not a significant burden on our society, many of whom want to make a better life for themselves and hopefully contribute to our society, they are not all freeloaders. We also accept far less than the majority of EU countries, we are willing to give France over £479 million over three years to stop them coming by boat, which equates to a cost of £1,800 per asylum seeker per year, but there is no potential financial return, just cost.
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Approx £7 million per day cost of housing asylum seekers in hotels sounds like a burden on society to me.
As for we taking less than most EU countries, we are a lot more densely populated than the likes of France and Germany. We are 8 th on the list of EU countries behind the likes of the Vatican City, Monaco, San Marino, Malta. You get the picture?
As for migrants just wanting a better life, fair enough, totally agree, but that is not a condition for granting asylum and proves they are economic migrants.
The proposed legislation passed its second reading last night seeks to deter economic migrants which if it succeeds, will allow more energies and resources to be targeted at genuine refugees.
[/quote]
Approx £7 million per day cost of housing asylum seekers in hotels sounds like a burden on society to me.
As for we taking less than most EU countries, we are a lot more densely populated than the likes of France and Germany. We are 8 th on the list of EU countries behind the likes of the Vatican City, Monaco, San Marino, Malta. You get the picture?
As for migrants just wanting a better life, fair enough, totally agree, but that is not a condition for granting asylum and proves they are economic migrants.
The proposed legislation passed its second reading last night seeks to deter economic migrants which if it succeeds, will allow more energies and resources to be targeted at genuine refugees.
Nanu said:
And this is kind of the crux of it. And the reason for the Tweet by Lineker.
The asylum issue has been going on for decades, centuries, its not a new thing. However, using language like 100s of millions are eligible is done deliberately to scare the populous, make it sound like there is an invasion imminent.
There are millions of people already living in the UK that could come punch your face in, knock your house down, attack your children...but the fact of the matter is they don't. Just as 100s of millions of people that could come to the UK, wont.
The comment was inflammatory and designed to scare people to be afraid of something that wont happen, to gain public support for an unpopular policy this government had to push through as its been promised as part of their wider agenda - and it worked. In much the same way totalitarian governments of the past, such as 1930's Germany did so.
Re the reference to modern slavery. Why would someone pay thousands of pounds to people smugglers to come to this country to be then become trapped as “ slaves”. That is the point of the legislation, these people are not being forced to come here.
The legislation is being used by lawyers as a last resort to avoid deportation.
The reason people dispose of documentation is so it’s virtually impossible then to either disprove their claim where they have come from or to identify where they have come from. If you can’t identify which countries they are from, you cannot send them back.
As for visa requirements, normally you only need a passport for departure, it’s upon arrival that you need to show a visa. Also you can apply for a tourist visa on line. If the country you’re in has access to the internet, say Albania, Pakistan or India where many are currently coming from, then you can apply.
The reason for using boats is they know they have very little chance of being granted asylum if the apply legally, but once here if they are refused, there is little chance of deportation.
The legislation is being used by lawyers as a last resort to avoid deportation.
The reason people dispose of documentation is so it’s virtually impossible then to either disprove their claim where they have come from or to identify where they have come from. If you can’t identify which countries they are from, you cannot send them back.
As for visa requirements, normally you only need a passport for departure, it’s upon arrival that you need to show a visa. Also you can apply for a tourist visa on line. If the country you’re in has access to the internet, say Albania, Pakistan or India where many are currently coming from, then you can apply.
The reason for using boats is they know they have very little chance of being granted asylum if the apply legally, but once here if they are refused, there is little chance of deportation.