LF advice on Z4 purchase

B

baggiez

Member
Hey guys,

New to the forum and had a few questions regarding buying and/or leasing an E89.

I'm quite new to cars in general, both driving and buying, but I've spent the best part of the last 3 months getting my head around makes, models, engines, depreciation, leasing, dealerships, etc.

I've set my heart on a Z4. For the purposes of this question I don't care if it's a 23, 30, 20 or 28, nor if it's M sport or not. I obviously have my preferences but we'll put them aside for now.

I've found a number of new Z4 deals with BMW offering up a deposit contribution of over £4,500 - but in paying on finance I'm still overpaying the value of the car by £2,500 over 3 years (OTR price of 33, I'm paying £35.5), plus losing 3-5k a year in depreciation. If I buy used (up to the value of £22k, my limit) then I'm getting rinsed on finance agreements by up to £5,000 over 3 years (cash price £21k, total price with financing > £25,000).

Leasing doesn't seem to be much better as I'm footing the bill for the hefty first year depreciation, and I can't seem to find any good deals around.

For a budding Z4 enthusiast who's keen to get behind the wheel, what would you suggest is my best course of action: buy new/buy used/lease - and where to begin looking?
 
baggiez said:
For a budding Z4 enthusiast who's keen to get behind the wheel, what would you suggest is my best course of action: buy new/buy used/lease - and where to begin looking?
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Hi and Welcome!

If you're worried about depreciation and value for money, buy a used one for cash. If you're worried about getting a nice car with little to worry about in the exact spec you want buy new on finance and negotiate yourself a good deal. Buying a new car with a BMW select finance agreement probably works out cheaper than buying a two year old car with the same agreement. It's all dependent on the funds available and attitude to finances and peace of mind...
Start looking at your local dealership, get down and there and have a good look at whats on offer and see what deal they can do you. There will be far more flexibility on discounts with a new car than used
 
My BMW dealer was offering finance at 5.8% APR.

I just purchased a 10 plate over 5 years with the view of paying off early. The interest on the loan was actually quite good considering 5 year term.

Best of all the service was AMAZING !! And i get an AUC 12 month warranty.

If you want his details PM me :thumbsup:
 
Miles said:
If you're worried about depreciation and value for money, buy a used one for cash. If you're worried about getting a nice car with little to worry about in the exact spec you want buy new on finance and negotiate yourself a good deal. Buying a new car with a BMW select finance agreement probably works out cheaper than buying a two year old car with the same agreement. It's all dependent on the funds available and attitude to finances and peace of mind...
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I'm not 'worried' about depreciation but I do want value for money. I do not have the 25k cash floating around for a used so I'd have to go on finance and I don't want to screwed on the finance agreement (which seems all too common).

I've spotted Z4's with around 5k deposit contribution but that only offsets year 1 depreciation. Subsequently shouldn't all used Z4s come down in value in the following year as they were bought with '5 grand off'?
 
Lots will disagree with me here, but personally I think you're on a hiding to nothing when it comes to buying new. You may save a little here or there but ultimately you're going to take a hit. If you have your heart set on spending such amounts and can't find a deal that works for you, how about finding a good second hand car in the low season and seeing if you can't beat the offers you're currently being offered by BMW with a low interest bank loan?
 
inkey$ said:
If you have your heart set on spending such amounts and can't find a deal that works for you, how about finding a good second hand car in the low season and seeing if you can't beat the offers you're currently being offered by BMW with a low interest bank loan?
Click to expand...

I'm not set on spending 20k +, I just want to get a nice Z4 without the trouble of a car with 100k on the clock.

Where would you start looking regarding a second hand Z4? And how would you go about beating an offer?

(I realise that I'm requesting to be spoonfed here but I don't want to be sharked in the used car industry)
 
baggiez said:
Miles said:
If you're worried about depreciation and value for money, buy a used one for cash. If you're worried about getting a nice car with little to worry about in the exact spec you want buy new on finance and negotiate yourself a good deal. Buying a new car with a BMW select finance agreement probably works out cheaper than buying a two year old car with the same agreement. It's all dependent on the funds available and attitude to finances and peace of mind...
Click to expand...

I'm not 'worried' about depreciation but I do want value for money. I do not have the 25k cash floating around for a used so I'd have to go on finance and I don't want to screwed on the finance agreement (which seems all too common).

I've spotted Z4's with around 5k deposit contribution but that only offsets year 1 depreciation. Subsequently shouldn't all used Z4s come down in value in the following year as they were bought with '5 grand off'?
Click to expand...

Don't overlook depreciation, this is still a cost us motorists, allbeit a hidden one. And especially if you take the PCP finance with a low deposit, being mindful you may end up in negative equity if you chop the car in before the agreement ends. i.e owing more on finance than the car is worth.
 
baggiez said:
inkey$ said:
If you have your heart set on spending such amounts and can't find a deal that works for you, how about finding a good second hand car in the low season and seeing if you can't beat the offers you're currently being offered by BMW with a low interest bank loan?
Click to expand...

I'm not set on spending 20k +, I just want to get a nice Z4 without the trouble of a car with 100k on the clock.

Where would you start looking regarding a second hand Z4? And how would you go about beating an offer?

(I realise that I'm requesting to be spoonfed here but I don't want to be sharked in the used car industry)
Click to expand...


I have 80 k now and the only thing i changed was the oil. at 150 k will be the same.
 
baggiez said:
Where would you start looking regarding a second hand Z4? And how would you go about beating an offer?

(I realise that I'm requesting to be spoonfed here but I don't want to be sharked in the used car industry)
Click to expand...

Depending on what model you want then this forum is a good start. There's a buying/selling section with a mix of variants available at a huge cross section of budget that should suit most people. Otherwise, if you want warranties etc then you're going to be looking at dealer websites via Autotrader, Pistonheads etc. Remember too that you can always ask on this forum for advice - most have gone through this on many occasions and will either know good dealerships to approach in and around your area or even provide direct advice on cars you're interested in. Go in prepared with the right questions and things to look out for and you won't get sharked.
 
My main concern is getting good value for money - which I don't think I'm getting on a new car. HOWEVER, I don't want to get screwed on the finance agreement on a used car.

If the car is listed at 15k cash then if I pay on finance I'm paying almost 20k and I can't justify that spend. How would you go about combating this?

Also, when buying used, what are your thresholds for milage? I currently drive a used Fiesta mk7. I bought it with 8k on the clock but I don't think it was very well looked after. I was staying away from anything over 20,000 miles - is this approach too cautious?
 
Depending on how you long you intend on keeping the car will depend on how best to approach this. Firstly you need to try one to be able to ascertain if actually you like the car and how long you intend to keep it. If only for a couple/few years then leasing be it via a company or under bmw select. If you are looking to keep the car a while then buying it either by finance or cash would be best. Possibly maybe look for a demonstrator?

The APR on the bmw site is just an example and the rates being offered are very competitive at the moment on both new and used. You get a better finance deal on a select agreement but without actually speaking with a dealership you won't know the figures.

Issue with select is you need to pay the balloon payment, which you could do by paying off early or saving/putting cash away until the end of the deal, alternatively this can be financed but probably not the best idea.

Do you have an idea of how many miles you expect to do? I note you say your new to cars and driving so I assume you've looked at insurance prices and overall running costs of such a vehicle?
 
baggiez said:
My main concern is getting good value for money - which I don't think I'm getting on a new car. HOWEVER, I don't want to get screwed on the finance agreement on a used car.

If the car is listed at 15k cash then if I pay on finance I'm paying almost 20k and I can't justify that spend. How would you go about combating this?

Also, when buying used, what are your thresholds for milage? I currently drive a used Fiesta mk7. I bought it with 8k on the clock but I don't think it was very well looked after. I was staying away from anything over 20,000 miles - is this approach too cautious?
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Different cars have different engines and some can be quite troublesome hence why forums and reviews exist. You can buy a 'lemon' from any brand. Low millage doesn't always mean well looked after, maintained well and decent car. It means it's not been driven lots for one reason or another. I have to say not wanting to go over 20k may not leave you with much scope. They usually say around 10/12k a year is the norm. So with that in mind anything less than 20/24k at 2 years is low millage.

If your buying an AUC from BMW it comes with a warranty and that's incase anything does go wrong mechanically in the first year. As for the finance as I said you need to speak with a dealer to see what would be offered to you as the rates are very good at the moment but then that's only if you tick the boxes they are looking for. If not then the finance will be higher or declined.

As for value for money.....no such thing when buying a car new or used. Unless you strike it lucky and get the car for much less than it's worth your always going to loose money via depreciation and/or finance. The only value for money is buying the right car that you want with the right spec at the right price. Everyone's different in that respect.
 
baggiez said:
My main concern is getting good value for money - which I don't think I'm getting on a new car. HOWEVER, I don't want to get screwed on the finance agreement on a used car.

If the car is listed at 15k cash then if I pay on finance I'm paying almost 20k and I can't justify that spend. How would you go about combating this?

Also, when buying used, what are your thresholds for milage? I currently drive a used Fiesta mk7. I bought it with 8k on the clock but I don't think it was very well looked after. I was staying away from anything over 20,000 miles - is this approach too cautious?
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Banks are offering very good rates on their loans at present, as low as 4.5% with some. So i would take this option if spending 15k on a used Z4, provided your credit rating is good :)
 
I for one do both, I buy 2nd hand cars and also new ones, whichever way you go you will lose money through depreciation, which does seem to concern you, remember with a new car as soon as you drive it off the forecourt you have lost the VAT which I know from experience is a lot more than the £4.5\5k for the first year you have stated, but it will be a car you have spec'd and not someone else's choices.

BMW finance is ok and you can get some discount off the car if you take it out, but remember there is an 'Admin' fee at either end of that agreement that will come to a few hundred.

As Inkey$ has said possibly the best route for you is a nearly new (demo) car there can be a saving on that and if going in with a cash deal can negotiate more off it, I went down that route last year, I bought a '63 Plate GT that was 2 months old with 2k miles on it with some decent spec for £34.5k new, that car was £44.5k, but saying that I have just ordered a new 530d GT with £6k of options and have got it for £1.5k below the base car OTR price approx 17% discount (cash and a trade in no finance) after a lot of haggling, so there are deals to be had and now that the new reg is out the way for a few months they will be keen for new custom.
 
Having a brand new car is clearly a tempting scenario - if you're prepared to accept that doing this is worth the cost then fine go ahead and enjoy the moment . As I'm ancient ,mortgage free and worth a bit I'm in a position to buy new but personally I couldn't psychologically take the hit - the thought of losing many thousands of pounds within a couple of years to me is just not worth the momentary joy of driving it off the forecourt - after a week it's a second hand car anyway - christ what a miserable sod I am :( I would rather spend the "lost" money on holidays , home improvements and grandchildren etc.

In your position I would go nearly new AUC . you'll still lose after a year or two but not nearly as much - and get a personal number plate and disguise the age :D

Anyway enjoy whatever you opt for - take no notice of a silly old git like me -YOLO
 
I would expect to do 8k miles a year. Insurance I'll take a hit on but that can't be helped. I was planning on keeping the car for maybe a 3 year window with the plan to sell afterwards, but all who knows. For these reasons I was leaning towards used - I just don't know how to get the best deals on a used car, especially when factoring in how much I pay for financing the purchase.

I will increase my scope up to 40k miles and hopefully find some better deals (obviously have to be more careful with the condition of car/tyres etc.) I do fancy a car with a decently specced interior and if I buy new then I'm losing the value on these pretty quickly so again it seems to make more sense to buy used.

In general, is it better to take out a bank loan and pay for the car in cash? Or is BMW Select the way to go (my initial calculations imply that I'm not getting a good deal on this)? What tips would you give to someone looking to negotiate on purchasing a used Z4? Ask for money off the price? A contribution from the dealer? Better financing?
 
Go for money off I would say, if we get a reasonable spell of weather prices I think will strengthen (Z4) what you will get depends on what the car 'owes' them, if it's been sat on their forecourt for anytime it's dead money and I would think you could negotiate a deal, also, play dealers off against each another, find 2 cars you like at different dealers and play them.
 
baggiez said:
I would expect to do 8k miles a year. Insurance I'll take a hit on but that can't be helped. I was planning on keeping the car for maybe a 3 year window with the plan to sell afterwards, but all who knows. For these reasons I was leaning towards used - I just don't know how to get the best deals on a used car, especially when factoring in how much I pay for financing the purchase.

I will increase my scope up to 40k miles and hopefully find some better deals (obviously have to be more careful with the condition of car/tyres etc.) I do fancy a car with a decently specced interior and if I buy new then I'm losing the value on these pretty quickly so again it seems to make more sense to buy used.

In general, is it better to take out a bank loan and pay for the car in cash? Or is BMW Select the way to go (my initial calculations imply that I'm not getting a good deal on this)? What tips would you give to someone looking to negotiate on purchasing a used Z4? Ask for money off the price? A contribution from the dealer? Better financing?
Click to expand...

Dealer finance is more convenient as it is set up at the showroom, and monthly payments on PCP's are lower than a conventional loan because of the balloon payment at the end of the term. But the interest charged is much more than on a bank loan so you would be paying more overall for the car. Also with a bank loan the finance is not attached to the car so you would effectively own the vehicle.
As said, trying finding some examples you like from a couple of dealerships, and play them against each other to haggle down the price.
 
I was always under the impression dealer rates on PCPs were more competitive or will try and make it so than conventional loans on new vehicles not withstanding the balloon payment. When I bought the Z3 which was an AUC car I had already arranged a high street bank loan and when discussed with the dealer they beat the repayments and interest rates by a couple of quid a month which over 4 years mounted up to a sizeable saving, however this was a HP agreement as opposed to a PCP. I would chat with the dealer and see what the options are, yes theyre out to make money but also will try and beat high street bank rates as at the end of the day they want your custom.

You will lose money whatever you do, its a car :)

Tim.
 
If you can drop an an ex demo model I would recommend that as the way to go. The dealer will be as keen to get rid of that as a brand new model and you will get a fantastic deal. I found my 35i with all the bells and whistles advertised at 15k under showroom asking price and they moved a little on that when I haggled. It was 6 months old with 4000 on the clock. I would imagine they will be able to finance an ex demo in exactly the same way as a "new" car as it has never technically left the dealership. I found mine scouring the ads on pistonheads.com which is as good a place as any to look. Basically it is new car benefits with used car price tag. Good luck with your search.
 
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