KW Clubsport Settings

Easty-5

Member
 Aberdeen
Is anybody else on here using KW Clubsports? I know Beedub is...

What settings are you all running on track? I use the KW recommended settings on the road but I want to know what others are running when on track? I didn't adjust them at my last trackday and they were very good, although I did experience a bit of understeer. My next trackday is the beginning of October so I'm looking for some ideas on what settings to use? The car has had a proper Geo setup to CSL settings and I will be having the car corner weighted in the next week or so.
 
Easty-5 said:
Is anybody else on here using KW Clubsports? I know Beedub is...

What settings are you all running on track? I use the KW recommended settings on the road but I want to know what others are running when on track? I didn't adjust them at my last trackday and they were very good, although I did experience a bit of understeer. My next trackday is the beginning of October so I'm looking for some ideas on what settings to use? The car has had a proper Geo setup to CSL settings and I will be having the car corner weighted in the next week or so.

If I recall correctly the CSL settings have -1.45 degrees front camber right? Now, without having aftermarket suspension myself and simply from reading around I would think that's not really enough to quell understeer on track... I frequently read of tracked M3's and other BMWs with up to -3 degrees front camber! Maybe try -2 and see how it feels?
 
If you really want to kill understeer at the track, I suggest <= -2 degrees of camber at the front, and wider than stock (I'm running 265 section tires at all four corners) front tires. The stock staggered setup is designed to induce understeer, and the MZ4 has lots of room under the front fenders for wider rubber. Just my experience, of course.
 
mattfwalters said:
If you really want to kill understeer at the track, I suggest <= -2 degrees of camber at the front, and wider than stock (I'm running 265 section tires at all four corners) front tires. The stock staggered setup is designed to induce understeer, and the MZ4 has lots of room under the front fenders for wider rubber. Just my experience, of course.


agree with this mostly.
 
ga41 said:
Easty-5 said:
Is anybody else on here using KW Clubsports? I know Beedub is...

What settings are you all running on track? I use the KW recommended settings on the road but I want to know what others are running when on track? I didn't adjust them at my last trackday and they were very good, although I did experience a bit of understeer. My next trackday is the beginning of October so I'm looking for some ideas on what settings to use? The car has had a proper Geo setup to CSL settings and I will be having the car corner weighted in the next week or so.

If I recall correctly the CSL settings have -1.45 degrees front camber right? Now, without having aftermarket suspension myself and simply from reading around I would think that's not really enough to quell understeer on track... I frequently read of tracked M3's and other BMWs with up to -3 degrees front camber! Maybe try -2 and see how it feels?


i run -2.7 and theirs very little in the way of understeer, wider rims and sticky tyres, however that nice envelope of pushing on safety understeer has gone, its grip grip grip grip and slip so you need yo be fast to catch it.
 
mattfwalters said:
If you really want to kill understeer at the track, I suggest <= -2 degrees of camber at the front, and wider than stock (I'm running 265 section tires at all four corners) front tires. The stock staggered setup is designed to induce understeer, and the MZ4 has lots of room under the front fenders for wider rubber. Just my experience, of course.

Thanks for the suggestion, you too ga41. I'll look to add a bit more front camber then.

I am running slightly wider track tyres - 235 & 265.

No issues with no safety net Beedub (touch wood). Understeer is the devils work!
 
OP i run

front - top 5 clicks
bottom - 4 clicks

rear top 8 clicks
bottom 1.75 turns ( old style damper )

this is what KW recommended for nurburgring dry times. Tbh i really should explore more with the settings.
 
Since the KW Clubsport kit comes with Caster/Camber plates, rather than increasing static camber, you should try increasing caster instead. This will increase dynamic camber without increasing static camber, but also give better straight-line stability and self-centring of the steering too. :thumbsup:

Likewise, if you want increased turn-in, you should try just a tad of toe-out and your car will turn like The Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. :P
 
exdos said:
Since the KW Clubsport kit comes with Caster/Camber plates, rather than increasing static camber, you should try increasing caster instead. This will increase dynamic camber without increasing static camber, but also give better straight-line stability and self-centring of the steering too. :thumbsup:

Likewise, if you want increased turn-in, you should try just a tad of toe-out and your car will turn like The Wild Mouse at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. :P

due to the extra tyre and wheel sing I'm running some of my static camber is needed to fit the larger tyre, and wider rim in.
 
Bump

If anyone has any comments I'd appreciate it, clubsports turning up next week and I want to have all the parts ready to go :thumbsup:
 
HI, I'm running these dampers too.

Very happy with them.

My Geo is
-2.2 camber all round
0 toe at the front
a bit of toe in at the rear.

I need to check my damper settings as I set them to KW standard settings and then played with them no end to get the car to handle better. I'm suffering with a lot of oversteer at the moment, however reducing the rear compression and increasing the rear rebound yesterday at Bedford made an improvement, so it's more playing around for me yet!

I'll post my settings later in the week.

Dan
 
dannyg_m3 said:
HI, I'm running these dampers too.

Very happy with them.

My Geo is
-2.2 camber all round
0 toe at the front
a bit of toe in at the rear.

I need to check my damper settings as I set them to KW standard settings and then played with them no end to get the car to handle better. I'm suffering with a lot of oversteer at the moment, however reducing the rear compression and increasing the rear rebound yesterday at Bedford made an improvement, so it's more playing around for me yet!

I'll post my settings later in the week.

Dan

Oversteer is more likely to be the result of your geometry rather than from your damper settings, therefore I think it's unlikely that you'll be able to dial it out with changes in bump and rebound on the dampers.

The only reason why you have specific static geometry settings is to account for the change in attitude of the car during movement, particularly changing direction laterally. Ideally, you want the tyres to have the greatest contact patch with the road surface at all times, and creating static negative camber is done in order to be sure that when the wheel is on the outside of a turn, with some bodyroll, the wheel becomes vertical, so that the contact patch is across the full width of the tyre. Since you've uprated your suspension with KW Clubsports, you will have reduced the lateral bodyroll, therefore, there is less need for static negative camber.

Increasing negative camber encourages the car to bump-steer, which makes the handling twitchy. Likewise, toe-in tends to make the car drive straight ahead, whereas, toe-out makes the car turn-in rapidly, therefore running zero toe with -2.2degs of camber all round will make your car rotate a bit too sharp.

If you really want your Z4M to benefit from the upgrade to KW Clubsports, I suggest that you reduce negative camber all round, particularly at the rear, and as said in my earlier post, increase caster and reduce camber at the front. Likewise, set the front bump and rebound stiffer than the rear, and try setting the rear rebound reasonably soft.

IMO, you want the car to handle neutrally, so that you can play around with the handling at the limit using the slip angle of the tyres, whereas, oversteer and understeer rapidly take your car beyond that phase.
 
To be honest I should have been more specific with my previous statement, but then again I didn't expect it to be picked through so thoroughly.

I respect the points you have made and they have merit, but in my view (and experience) having raced BMW M cars for the last 10 years at a very competitive level differs slightly.

You defiantly need a good geometry setting as a base point. Camber / caster / toe and corner weighting give the car every opportunity possible to position the tyres correctly.
However the dampers are what keep the tyres in contact with the Tarmac.
Too soft and the tyres are worked too hard, too stiff and the tyres jump off the Tarmac causing a loss of grip.

My car is very close to perfection for me, and in fact my statement about oversteer is really picking hairs as we oftern see off 991 GT3's and many race cars on slicks. See my YouTube channel.
The geometry has been re-adjusted several times this year having inspected the tyre wear with Guglielmi Motorsport (Steve has raced BMW's since God had a dog and has several championship wins to his name) and the tyres are now wearing equally across the tread and the heat after a session on track is also very even.

Now it's just a matter of perfecting the damping to the last 5%.

Yesterday, Bedford saw a big improvement from removing just one click of compression and adding one click of rebound to the rear. Changing the bias from oversteer to a more neutral feel.

Everybody finds their own way of getting to a good setup for them.

Dan
 
You did say you were suffering with a lot of oversteer...

Anyway, I hope you get the handling 100% to your liking. :thumbsup:
 
What settings are you running now danny? I use a different setup for fast tracks like Thruxton from that for tight, more technical tracks. I don't think I've found the perfect balance yet, but I'll post my settings when I have a chance.
 
So, my KW clubsport settings are (clicks back from full hard)

Front
Compression -6
Re bound - 12

Rear
Compression -6
re bound -6

Note that my car has H&R adjustable ARB's, and the front is set to stiff, which might explain why the front rebound is low.

Also note that the front end felt slightly too stiff on these settings (by 1 click of compression at a guess) on Bedford circuit where the bends are slow in the majority. When I'm at Spa for example the front end is epic on these settings.

Any questions just let me know.

Dan
 
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