to be honest my E92 M3 would probably kill me if it wasn't full of tech.....
Is technology making cars worse?
- Thread starter ChrisC85
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mad4slalom
Senior member
Adamski said:Depends what you like out of a car. I like some of the driver aids, as they keep me out of trouble.
The flappy paddle idea is growing on me though. You gotta move with the times.
That said, I love the manual box and S54 engine. They go extremely well together.
Of course for some, it has to be really raw. No driver aids, nothing.
I think my zed suits my needs fine
I absolutely hate the over nannying dsc, it dumps power way too much and way too soon imo. 99% of the time its switched off. I absolutely love everything else about the z4m. :thumbsdown:
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Having learnt to drive with no aids I much prefer not to have them. Having said that I hit some ice, heading to the beach last Sunday morning and the ABS kicked in, It would have been interesting to know whether I could have sorted it my self. Very reassuring system. As to the other electronically adjusted/actuated aids, you can keep them. 
I have a feeling even the E85 may have too much tech, in it, to make them last, like, for example, a Triumph Stag. I mean who's going to tool up and make a Sat Nav, for a Zed4, in 50 years time, know one I suspect. Still I probably won't be around to worry about it. :wink:
I have a feeling even the E85 may have too much tech, in it, to make them last, like, for example, a Triumph Stag. I mean who's going to tool up and make a Sat Nav, for a Zed4, in 50 years time, know one I suspect. Still I probably won't be around to worry about it. :wink:
Have you tried a 35iS ?BMWZ4MC said:Jasey said:I used to think the same until I got my 35is. Now I like nothing more than sport+ flooring it and holding on for dear life
I've recently spent quite a bit of time driving a 2014 MB SLK350 in AMG spec. Undoubtedly, it is a very fast car and follows the 'floor it and hold on' maxim, but in no driving mode (sport, economy, manual) does the gearbox shift appropriately for the road conditions or even terribly smoothly. Even in the pseudo-manual mode it doesn't allow a succession of rapid up or downshifts appropriate for spirited driving. Give me three pedals every time.
In sport+ mode I've never felt that the gearing was an issue (except maybe it stays in too lower gear if you aren't really pushing it - the chassis in some of the bendier roads round here can be a challenge and being able to spend 100% of you effort trying to figure out where the wheels are heading is a godsend
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Mazda managed what is imho perfect electric steering over a decade ago on the RX8. I was genuinely shocked when I noticed there was no hydraulic fluid reservoir! No idea why BMW still can't get close... All they offer is the even more artificial active steering - ran a mile from ticking that box when I test drove a 5 series with it fitted.
I do think buzyg is on to something with the triumph stag argument - there's no way in the world cars of today are going to be running in 50 years time. Especially now that a dashboard warning light is an mot fail lots of electronic failures basically scrap perfectly reasonable cars.
I do think buzyg is on to something with the triumph stag argument - there's no way in the world cars of today are going to be running in 50 years time. Especially now that a dashboard warning light is an mot fail lots of electronic failures basically scrap perfectly reasonable cars.
This steering rack was soo good they continued to use the same setup in their later cars! e.g. Mazda 6 etc....omar said:
Is technology creating a new set of enthusiasts...?
the geeky electronics squad that can hack into the brains of your car
Or better still do it without the dealer knowing their has been some intervention!
Whichever way you look at it, slowly slowly cars are moving ever closer to driving themselves imo
I think the DSC is just right in my MR - went out for a blast with Jem yesterday and you can feel the back end twitch and grip, even without the dash light coming on. It does instill confidence, and doesn't seem to act the same way as my 3.0, which just cut power dramatically. In the M it seems to almost replicate the 'mid' setting on my last car, allowing the LSD to make a contribution to the party before deciding to step in with electronics.
Of course maybe I'm just not driving it hard enough
All that said, I do still miss the ease of my auto, and I never felt that the gear change - in full auto or manual - ever held me back. It is a sublime box, and I think in comparison to other autos I've driven BMW are very, very good at building them.
The tech failing in our cars worries me too, as nothing lasts forever and when it comes down to it these are mass-produced cars that will (probably) never have the kind of following you see hawking their wares at Silverstone Classic, selling all the bits you might need to fix it. Fortunately, being mass-produced, there are a bunch of primary components shared with the e46 3 series, so apart from the satnav... Most things that break will be replaceable for a good while yet. And there are a lot of good Ex-BMW techs out there, as we know.
Of course maybe I'm just not driving it hard enough
All that said, I do still miss the ease of my auto, and I never felt that the gear change - in full auto or manual - ever held me back. It is a sublime box, and I think in comparison to other autos I've driven BMW are very, very good at building them.
The tech failing in our cars worries me too, as nothing lasts forever and when it comes down to it these are mass-produced cars that will (probably) never have the kind of following you see hawking their wares at Silverstone Classic, selling all the bits you might need to fix it. Fortunately, being mass-produced, there are a bunch of primary components shared with the e46 3 series, so apart from the satnav... Most things that break will be replaceable for a good while yet. And there are a lot of good Ex-BMW techs out there, as we know.
I thought MDM was good on mine but I still switched the traction all off if it was dry as I found it still a little too intrusive...although I did get it wrong once and I did wonder whether I should have kept it on! it feels a big heavy car when the rear end is swinging left to right and you aren't in control of it!georgie_no23 said:
Great N/A engine and lovely chassis in them
Some tech is good others not so. Electric steering in the 991 has been criticised (relative to the 997) and is still criticised now it's been out a while. I'm not sure how much weight an electric system saves over hydraulic but is it really progress? I thought progress was designing something to be better at its primary task than the thing that preceded it. Fake synthesised noise is also not a good development.
Having said all of that, cars are designed to appeal to consumers and to respond to legislative changes. That's why cars are increasingly doing everything for you because the majority of people derive no pleasure from driving, they just want to get from A to B in comfort with the least amount of effort and fuel used. Dull to most of us on here but we are a tiny minority.
Having said all of that, cars are designed to appeal to consumers and to respond to legislative changes. That's why cars are increasingly doing everything for you because the majority of people derive no pleasure from driving, they just want to get from A to B in comfort with the least amount of effort and fuel used. Dull to most of us on here but we are a tiny minority.
Electric power steering is more about CO2 and MPG gains, up to 4% saving over hydraulic plus easier to package and fit. No reason it can't be as good as a hydraulic system (mazda RX8 for example is very good) but they tend to add things like wheel nudging for accident avoidance, variable ratios for easier parking and high speed stability etc. Make the cars lighter with narrower tyres and save the need for PAS in the first place.
The only thing that spoils the Z4M from a technology point of view is having an electronic throttle :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:
Other than that, by modern standards I guess it's pretty raw depending on previous experiences...
However, from a daily car perspective, bring on the advancements in technology, cars in this range are just going to get better and better!!
Other than that, by modern standards I guess it's pretty raw depending on previous experiences...
However, from a daily car perspective, bring on the advancements in technology, cars in this range are just going to get better and better!!
thepits said:If you want a raw daily drive try a E30 M3 - I did
Aids? LSD, ABS, errr - that's it
Was it scary to drive? No, just a bit 'interesting' on black ice
Was it fun to drive> YES! a pure drivers car.
E30 M3 is what I always wanted. I will one day get one for the exact reason that I really do enjoy the pure drivers car.