Is Roger Clemens telling the truth?

Poll Poll Is Roger Clemens telling the truth?

  • Yes

    Votes: 3 15.0%
  • No

    Votes: 10 50.0%
  • I don't care!

    Votes: 8 40.0%

  • Total voters
    20
20ducks said:
WLH said:
If I want to watch a really good baseball game I walk down the street about 2 blocks to the park and watch a little league game.... :thumbsup:
That is some great baseball... :)

I have done this. Watching some of the parents brawling is more entertaining than HBO fight of the week.
Yes Indeed.... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
The original idea for the Mitchell Commission and its eventual report is to shed light on the steroid usage in MLB and root out the cheaters so that they could clean
up the sport and send the message to the kids that steroids cannot be used and that in fact they are extremely bad for your health. :evil: What I don't get is the media circus surrounding the Clemens affair. :headbang: We live in a system of law and If the U.S. Congress thinks he broke some laws then indict him and let a court of law judge him.

What they should do is have him try on a baseball glove and if it does not fit then they must acquit him. :wink:

Cheers.
 
The Congress is a legislative body...they will investigate (as they have been) and will turn over their recommendations to the Justice Dept for indictment. The indictment will be (see Barry Bonds) not for steroid use but for perjury.

What is being played out is that the cheaters are being exposed (see Maguire or Sosa) and will sent to baseball limbo or worse: not to be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame. It will be a fate somewhat less than Pete Rose but with the same results: their records (hopefully) will be marked with a dreaded "cheaters" asterisk.


btw, baseball season starts in approx 6 weeks.
 
Here's an interesting article written by Scott Ritter about HGH and Clemens....

This article does not reflect my views - it expresses Scott Ritter's views:
If Only Saddam Had Injected HGH
by Scott Ritter

The recent spectacle of Congressional hearings on the alleged use of steroids and/or Human Growth Hormone (HGH) by Roger Clemons, a professional baseball player nicknamed "the Rocket," throws into question the viability and functionality of a Congress controlled by the Democratic Party. The House Government Reform Committee, chaired by Representative Henry Waxman (D-California), carried out its own made-for-television version of Court TV, grilling the All Star pitcher and his former trainer over their contradictory statements as to whether or not Clemons actually was injected with a banned performance enhancing substance. While this hearing was underway, thousands of miles away, in Iraq , American service members continued the ugly business of occupying Iraq . That Waxman would abuse his position by pursuing such trivia while Americans continued to fight and die in a war built exclusively on a framework of lies is disturbing.

True, Henry Waxman has chaired numerous hearings, and issued even more statements, which have resulted in several embarrassing questions being asked by the Government Reform Committee of a recalcitrant White House. But none of Henry Waxman's efforts have produced the high drama of the Clemons hearings, where every word was wrestled with, every context explored. Forensic data was introduced. Reputations were (and are) on the line. The consequences are potentially grave: perjury charges could be brought forward against Clemons and others. What was the source of this commotion? Simply put, a few syringes and a game. Baseball might be the national pastime, perhaps, but it remains a game nonetheless. War is all-too real, and the war in Iraq has cost nearly 4,000 Americans their lives, while wounding tens of thousands more, while killing and wounding hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

At the same time Henry Waxman's committee was grilling the Cy Young award-winning pitcher, the House Foreign Affairs Committee was holding hearings of its own, on the issue of Iraq. Another Democrat, Representative Robert Wexler (D-Florida), raised the matter of findings from a report issued by the Center for Public Integrity, issued last month, that document some 935 allegations of false statements made by the Bush administration in the lead up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Of particular interest to Wexler were 56 of those allegedly false statements attributed to the witness seated before the committee, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who had served as the National Security Advisor in the period of time when the alleged false statements were made.

To his credit, Representative Wexler pressed home his point, namely that Condi Rice had lied when she helped make the case for war against Iraq by selectively citing certain intelligence information while suppressing others. Secretary Rice, of course, denied any wrongdoing, leaving America with a curt point-counterpoint exchange which served little purpose when it comes to the matter of the search for truth and accountability through oversight. When Roger Clemons denied the charges leveled at him, the robust overseers of Congressional Constitutional mandate who populate the Government Reform Committee subjected him to a withering round of cross-examination full of recrimination and doubt. Following Wexler's brief moment of inquiry, Condi Rice was let off without further reproach.

Clearly there are discrepancies between the charges leveled by Wexler and the responses offered by Rice. That the compendium of alleged false statements comes from an independent, non-governmental entity (the Center for Public Integrity) should not serve as a roadblock to further investigation and hearings into the matter: the Government Reform Committee was acting in response to an independent investigation, the Mitchell Report, authorized not by Congress, but rather the Commissioner of Baseball. Unlike the Mitchell Report, however, the matter of Bush administration prevarication concerning the false case made for war in Iraq delves not into the lives of private citizens, where the consequences get no bigger than inflated sports statistics, but rather the words and actions of elected officials which influenced public opinion and the will of Congress in a manner which has cost hundreds of billions of dollars and several thousand American lives.

Congress shouldn't have to wait for a private organization like the Center for Public Integrity to do its job for it. The misrepresentation of fact, fabrication of falsehoods, and outright lies the Center for Public Integrity documents are all a matter of public record, most of which were derived from statements made before Congress itself.

That Congress puts the so-called integrity of a game ahead of its own Constitutional mandate of oversight of legitimate governance is a travesty. That this travesty is carried out in the face of a pledge by a Democratic-controlled Congress to effectively and responsibly carry out its duty to investigate how and why our nation went to war with Iraq is not only incomprehensible, but reprehensible.

Perhaps if Saddam Hussein had been accused of injecting HGH instead of hiding WMD, Congress would have stepped up to the plate, so to speak, and dug deep into the truth of the matter. Henry Waxman, as well meaning as he is, sits at the head of a legislative process which has lost touch with reality and purpose. Pandering to the no-risk approach of non-governance by pursuing "The Rocket" and allegations of HGH abuse, while ignoring the high-risk demands of legitimate government by pursuing matters pertaining to how the Bush administration manufactured evidence of illusory Iraqi rockets tipped with imagined WMD, represents the ultimate indictment of a Congress, and legislative process, that long ago lost touch with its ultimate purpose of being: the pursuit of the best interests of the American people through the defense of the rule of law as set forth by the United States Constitution.
 
pmeloche said:
The original idea for the Mitchell Commission and its eventual report is to shed light on the steroid usage in MLB and root out the cheaters so that they could clean
up the sport and send the message to the kids that steroids cannot be used and that in fact they are extremely bad for your health.

I don't believe Clemens is telling the truth for a second. Generally speaking, drug testing in pro sports is a joke, and a mere shadow of what is required in amateur sports (and I know that system quite well).

Other than catching people who lie under oath, for me the statement above is the most relevant here - I think people would be shocked to find out the percentage of kids who are involved in steroid abuse at the high school level. For me protecting the health of the younger athletes is what it's all about.
 
Waxman, Wexler, Pelosi are jokes of the left coast. There are many jokers in Congress that reside on both sides of the aisles. Clemmons, Bonds and the rest of the cheaters should all be outed.
 
:rofl: History and time takes care of all loose ends. Just look at Pete Rose the next time your in Vegas, you can find him signing autographs (for a price) at the Forum Shops in Ceasars Palace! There is no need to think anyone who is lying will get off. The media and the fact or fiction of each players histories have already planted the seeds of questions. I myself will never be rich and famous, but one can't help but wonder in todays media, internet, and video driven society how someone (celebrities, sports stars and many others) who are in the spotlight 24/7 can make so many stupid mistakes. If I were rich and famous, I would have three rules, protect my character, protect the money and protect the money! Now If I were to become rich and famous, how do I get all those pictures at Homecoming and my posts deleted? :rofl:


cover.jpg
 
Yeah, especially the one where you are close to the camera (relatively). We have our ideas how you pulled that one off. :poke: :fuelfire:
 
20ducks said:
Clemmons, Bonds and the rest of the cheaters should all be outed.

I think there are too many of them, and no way to know how many there were over the past 10-15 years. Remember, there was no testing in the past. I think they should just move on.
 
rabman5 said:
20ducks said:
Clemmons, Bonds and the rest of the cheaters should all be outed.

I think there are too many of them, and no way to know how many there were over the past 10-15 years. Remember, there was no testing in the past. I think they should just move on.

Agree to move on, but asterisk those records first.
 
Move on? It's not that easy, just ask Marion Jones! Todays media makes Columbo look like Barney Fife. God help you if your anybody important and you screw up on a slow news week! I never make it a point to discuss political views (I want to remain friends with my co-workers) but, with the war in Iraq, subprime loans, Americans credit debt and many other important items, it's amazing that congress finds it important enough to form a committee to investigate baseball and who knows maybe my Patriots cheating (allegedly). Go figure!







jones.jpg
 
JBZ4 said:
Move on? It's not that easy, just ask Marion Jones!





jones.jpg

Terrible shame...her records were stricken and awards retrieved/revoked. Then I guess she passed some bad checks plus. Too bad for her.
 
How come it doesn't sound as bad when a woman is in the pokey as it does when a man is in the pokey?
 
JBZ4 said:
How come it doesn't sound as bad when a woman is in the pokey as it does when a man is in the pokey?


Where does the term pokey come from anyway..... never mind, I don't want to know. :topicclosed:
 
20ducks said:
JBZ4 said:
Move on? It's not that easy, just ask Marion Jones!





jones.jpg

Terrible shame...her records were stricken and awards retrieved/revoked. Then I guess she passed some bad checks plus. Too bad for her.

Her former teammates on the relay team will also have to return their medals. :x Bummer for them if they were clean.
 
20ducks said:
Agreed, Phil. It is an election year and the dems are out for blood considering their rating is even below Gdub's.
That's really what it's all about isn't it!

His problem is he tried to deal with this the same way he pitches.
Bring the heat & a little chin music.

He would have been far better to do the same as Pettitte & it would have eventually blown over.... now he's screwed himself
 
From the rumors circulating around, it appears there is concrete evidence that he lied about being at Jose Canseco's house for a party where steroid/hgh use was discussed. So he's going to be charged with perjury. Other than that, they have testimony from 3 or 4 people who say Roger used steroids/hgh. Would that have been enough to convict? Did he even need to lie about being at the party?
 
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