Is it possible to make the z4 a proper drivers car?

[Machine monkey]

I have a cheapish set of spax coilovers on my car. And i think they are great although i have a few issues still to sort with geo and bushes. With the front m3 ARB and the coil overs the handling is much better.

I think once my car is done with all the jobs i have waiting i should be able to report back on most of the stuff we are discussing on hear. As i will have replaced all bushes front and back a mixture of power flex and Meyle. M3 arbs coilovers and the M factory LSD. I am hopping its a bit more focused and i dont ruin the car!! Witch i definitely felt i had done when i fitted FK lowering springs!!

 

[Ed Doe]

I will concede that despite not having found any need for the diff (yet...), I still want one!!

 

[itguy]

Well have removed the factory camber pins on the front turrets tonight, v easy obviously but now impatience is setting in and I'm tempted to jack each side up and set them to max available camber (negative obviously). Will this affect the toe if I do this?

This is just as a stop-gap until I get down to the local 4 wheel alignment place who can do me some custom settings etc.

 

[ripatsu]

I have experienced Porsche Boxter S, Porsche Cayman Turbo, Porsche Panamera 4 and Porsche 944 Turbo.

The feeling behind the wheel in Z4 is in my opinion pretty similar with Boxter S. However I like even more Porshce's engine sound. It is more louder and angrier...although z4 3.0 iS sound is also music to my ears. :roll:

The other things are just matter of taste I think. I myself simply like BMW more at the end.

And I think u get much more sport car buying BMW than Porsche if we are talking about what you can get with the same amount of money. Porsche-logo costs money... :headbang: AND collects lots more envious looks which is not nice eventually :x

I really enjoy everyday my Z4 knowing there is no Porsche Boxter that can beat up my Zed. (Well maybe the latest ones could do that, but cannot compare of course) :rofl:

 

[GuidoK]

In my experience I felt that particularly coilovers on a road car just don't work in the way we all want them to!

I thinkt that's the reason you can buy a no name china made coiloverset for £400 (cheaper than oem parts.....), or sets that go well above £5000.

As with all mods: focus on what you want to achieve.

 

[exdos]

Itguy,

I've read through this thread, but I can't actually see what you think is wrong with your car, so it's hard to understand what specific problems you are wanting to solve. I've done a lot of performance modding of my Z3MC and Z4MC and I can give you some ideas of what improvements you will expect from each of the possible mods. The simplest, cheapest and most effective mod of all is geometry adjustment: the toe angles have the singlemost effect on transforming the handling of a car. As good as the handling of an Elise might be, how can anyone put up with all that noise at the back of their heads?

 

[Anonymous]

The simplest, cheapest and most effective mod of all is geometry adjustment: the toe angles have the singlemost effect on transforming the handling of a car.

Can someone advise the most effective toe angle's I should ask for when I go for alignment?
Also, with the camber pins removed, do I shove it as far over as possible to achieve the maximum camber angle or is there a specific setting I should be looking to achieve here too?

 

[tertius]

As good as the handling of an Elise might be, how can anyone put up with all that noise at the back of their heads?

Earplugs.

 

[itguy]

Thanks exdus - you're right, I've not really stated what my definition of a drivers car is, or what I am looking for in the Z that it doesn't have at the moment.

Well, I think it comes down to handling specifically - the noise, power, F/R layout etc is all fine for me.

Handling-wise, I'm looking for a keener turn in with a bit more bite and feedback, but then a bit more feel from the whole car when pushing on as currently I find it hard to know how much grip there really is and I certainly wouldn't feel confident to make it 'dance'. I don't find the suspension too hard or soft really and I don't try and drive it at 9/10 or 10/10ths everywhere by any means.

I have a particularly nice set of left-rights on the B6047 near Tilton on the Hill near me and when you hook those up right in a decent sportscar you just feel alive and at one with the car. I haven't been able to do that with the Z yet as it doesn't seem to want to shift left/right easily - a bit like the weight transfer that is going on is slow to move around (feels like a high CoG).

With it setup how it is at the moment it's just not a flickable darty car.

I have also noticed incidentally that when pulling out of tight junctions etc I actually have to wind off the lock myself rather than the car self centering fully - making me wonder if it has toe out at the moment on the front too.

 

[Anonymous]

I have a particularly nice set of left-rights on the B6047 near Tilton on the Hill

Best Road in Leicestershire

 

[Finisterre]

Sorry, I think I've waded in a bit there in retrospect :roll:

In my experience I felt that particularly coilovers on a road car just don't work in the way we all want them to!

Wade in all you like. Your experience is the same as mine with escorts and saabs. It might be buyer remorse, or it may be wisdom. Whatever, I do like to read posts that widen the debate beyond 'which coilover?'.

 

[edd_jedi]

I think people often find BMWs are too refined - the reason cars like Elise's, Boxsters etc are fun is because they are like go karts so you really get the sensation of speed. BMWs are very good at hiding the terror of driving fast, so some people find them boring. Doing 0-60 in a 7 series is far less exciting than doing the same in a Fiesta XR2 despite the fact it is several seconds quicker.

 

[Finisterre]

a deep bubbling fear is key

 

[LeeZ4MR]

I think people often find BMWs are too refined - the reason cars like Elise's, Boxsters etc are fun is because they are like go karts so you really get the sensation of speed. BMWs are very good at hiding the terror of driving fast, so some people find them boring. Doing 0-60 in a 7 series is far less exciting than doing the same in a Fiesta XR2 despite the fact it is several seconds quicker.

Spot on!

 

[Ed Doe]

Sorry, I think I've waded in a bit there in retrospect :roll:

In my experience I felt that particularly coilovers on a road car just don't work in the way we all want them to!

Wade in all you like. Your experience is the same as mine with escorts and saabs. It might be buyer remorse, or it may be wisdom. Whatever, I do like to read posts that widen the debate beyond 'which coilover?'.

It always seems to end up with a what coilover debate, no matter what forum!

Itguy, I'd imagine the feedback part would be due in part to the steering feel. The electric steering on the Z4 is known to be a bit numb, which does affect how you can dance it on the limit. The change in direction will inevitably be the increased mass although I'd imagine the aforementioned arb modifications will reduce roll and in turn improve control through fast direction changes.

 

[tertius]

I think people often find BMWs are too refined - the reason cars like Elise's, Boxsters etc are fun is because they are like go karts so you really get the sensation of speed. BMWs are very good at hiding the terror of driving fast, so some people find them boring. Doing 0-60 in a 7 series is far less exciting than doing the same in a Fiesta XR2 despite the fact it is several seconds quicker.

Spot on!

Hmm, I think the main reason an Elise is fun is because the controls are so absolutely precise and communicative:

A) the steering is not even power assisted, it is quite sublime;
B) brakes barely servo'd with no ABS (on my Elise at least) and incredible feedback and control
C) suspension so direct, you are joined to the road, it felt like I could run over a coin and tell whether it was heads or tails

Together with the suspension the light weight of the Elise does mean that direction changes and cornering is otherworldly.

You won't (can't) recreate that with a Z4, you have to find other rewards. Like being able to carry more than a toothbrush and a credit card; not cooking every item you put in the boot; having a stereo you can hear; not stopping for fuel every 200 miles; and the power ...

 

[itguy]

Right.

Tonight I adjusted the front camber on my car to as far inwards as it can go with the standard top mounts and the pins removed, giving maximum negative camber available with stock parts.

This does seem to have made it have a little more steering feel and want to turn in a bit quicker than before.

It does feel like the toe is not right now though (expected really) as it seems to want to self centre more when returning to centre from a right hand corner than a left hand one.

So, I was going to take it in for a 4 wheel alignment. I'm thinking 0 front toe (parallel), max front camber available, rear toe 0(?) and rear camber probably -1.5 rather than the -2+ from the factory.

What do you think?

 

[alekos911]

Υοu should add some toe in at the rear end , as this will make the car more stable during acceleration (it will put the power down more easily). Toe out at the rear will make the car excessively oversteerie.

 

[itguy]

Hi Everyone

I thought i'd resurrect this thread as i've been working on the car again recently.

As some of you may have seen from my other thread, i've replaced the front lower control arm bushes yesterday and i now have some decent steering feel in the car.

The old ones must have been shot for a while (possibly the entire time i've owned the car), as the steering has never felt as good as this to me before.

I'm getting another 4 wheel alignment done tomorrow at my usual well tried and tested place in leicester and will see if they can tweak the front camber properly too. Since starting this thread i've put it back to standard with the securing pins in place, so any suggestions as to what i should be trying to get them to set it to would be great. (front and rear toe and front and rear camber)

 

[Brasseye]

Its not light enough for a sports car buy an Elise

For a daily driver the Z knocks spots off the Elise for comfort and if you get the M or twin turbo only one second slower to 60 than the Elise

Its just the corners where the weight becomes an issue,but hey its not a race track out there !