slick said:
I don't know the solution,
but getting angry doesn't get rid of the scratch or prevent it happening again.
I really really really hate this man
- Thread starter Stuart Truman
- Start date
I don't know the solution,
but getting angry doesn't get rid of the scratch or prevent it happening again.
Revolution only puts another corrupt team in anyway. Just look at Egypt - a new president is now allocating absolute powers to himself.
Seems to be human nature in a way. I suppose the only way is to work with the system as good as you can and make your own rules in a way of what you see is appropriate.
Seems to be human nature in a way. I suppose the only way is to work with the system as good as you can and make your own rules in a way of what you see is appropriate.
Is it any wonder anyone with real ability avoids a career in Politics?
If you don't like it get off your arses and stop whingeing and join/start a party or a movement or a campaign or, and here's a revolutionary thought, go to the ballot box and vote or spoil the ballot paper. 40% of the electorate can't even be arsed to do that!!
If you don't like it get off your arses and stop whingeing and join/start a party or a movement or a campaign or, and here's a revolutionary thought, go to the ballot box and vote or spoil the ballot paper. 40% of the electorate can't even be arsed to do that!!
original guvnor said:
Tax avoidance is fine.
Tax evasion is the bad one.
Everyone avoids tax in some way shape or form.
Cripes, salary sacrifice pension savings are a form of tax avoidance, and they are encouraged across the pension industry!
I'm not sure how this tax avoidance thing being bad got started but it's really bad that people see it as bad. If the law allows it, use it! If the law doesn't like it, change the law. Telling people to stop using LEGAL loopholes is stupid
Dave
are you in prison?pvr said:
the thing that annoys me is the double standards .......if my window cleaner was creaming £3.50 a house for cleaning windows while on benefits he would be prosecuted .......by the same people that steal millions in the guise of expenses
And when an MP gets caught he only has to say .... I,m sorry and pay it back ( mostly)
And when an MP gets caught he only has to say .... I,m sorry and pay it back ( mostly)
Mr Whippy said:original guvnor said:
Tax avoidance is fine.
Tax evasion is the bad one.
Everyone avoids tax in some way shape or form.
Cripes, salary sacrifice pension savings are a form of tax avoidance, and they are encouraged across the pension industry!
I'm not sure how this tax avoidance thing being bad got started but it's really bad that people see it as bad. If the law allows it, use it! If the law doesn't like it, change the law. Telling people to stop using LEGAL loopholes is stupid
Dave
I know the difference and i did mean tax avoidance, i just think if everyone was on the same rate there would be less opertunity and maybe even desire to avoid paying tax...i just know that at the mo i pay 40% as paye and with NI on top nearly half my pay is gone in tax. I work 84 hrs a week as a minimum...so how is that fair. If i earn 2000, i pay getting on for a grand in stoppages and to make matters worse im out at sea 50% of the time so i see no benifits personally atall!!! I wouldnt feel so bad if everyone was paying this rate, but it gauls me to work so hard and long just to hand it over. I can see why people use EBTs and ltd company companies to AVOID paying this, i just think if it was a fair system they wouldnt have to...............
I totally agree. It wasn't a rant at you by any means.
There does seem to have been a surge in protest that tax avoidance is bad these days.
I agree that if the system was simple there wouldn't be loopholes. I made a similar argument but was told that the sign of a developed economy is a complex tax model. Well I have no idea if that is right or wrong but if that is what the leading people think then we will forever have tax avoidance.
I'm freelance right now and I can go two ways, become Ltd and pay myself a salary, or be Self Assessment sole trader. Both models have pros and cons but there is a point where one is better than the other. In theory using one vs the other is basically a form of tax avoidance as it becomes tax efficient to be one rather than the other.
It pisses me off to be honest. If the system was simple they would SAVE so much in both creating these rules, enforcing them, businesses adhering to them, or looking for ways to avoid them. We probably spend a scary amount of GDP titting around because the tax system is complex.
If it were simple, there would be no avoidance, but it'd be fine because chances are it'd be cheaper anyway despite no avoidance because the system would be so efficient.
If government then wants to promote/discourage certain behaviours they can do it via non-fiscal policy.
Cripes, imagine how much is spent each year managing car taxes, co car taxes, all the accountancy, taxes on fuel, vat on all that. How much more economic activity would there be because of cheaper transport/logistics.
That alone would probably offset the loss in taxation via those methods, which are also costly to collect/administrate.
So I agree with your position. Make it simple, make it efficient, make it fair. 20% flat rate on everything as much as possible. Dump tax/benefits/incentives on EVERYTHING else. Tax economic activity proper at it's source and leave it at that.
Dave
There does seem to have been a surge in protest that tax avoidance is bad these days.
I agree that if the system was simple there wouldn't be loopholes. I made a similar argument but was told that the sign of a developed economy is a complex tax model. Well I have no idea if that is right or wrong but if that is what the leading people think then we will forever have tax avoidance.
I'm freelance right now and I can go two ways, become Ltd and pay myself a salary, or be Self Assessment sole trader. Both models have pros and cons but there is a point where one is better than the other. In theory using one vs the other is basically a form of tax avoidance as it becomes tax efficient to be one rather than the other.
It pisses me off to be honest. If the system was simple they would SAVE so much in both creating these rules, enforcing them, businesses adhering to them, or looking for ways to avoid them. We probably spend a scary amount of GDP titting around because the tax system is complex.
If it were simple, there would be no avoidance, but it'd be fine because chances are it'd be cheaper anyway despite no avoidance because the system would be so efficient.
If government then wants to promote/discourage certain behaviours they can do it via non-fiscal policy.
Cripes, imagine how much is spent each year managing car taxes, co car taxes, all the accountancy, taxes on fuel, vat on all that. How much more economic activity would there be because of cheaper transport/logistics.
That alone would probably offset the loss in taxation via those methods, which are also costly to collect/administrate.
So I agree with your position. Make it simple, make it efficient, make it fair. 20% flat rate on everything as much as possible. Dump tax/benefits/incentives on EVERYTHING else. Tax economic activity proper at it's source and leave it at that.
Dave
Hunter said:Mr Whippy said:Hunter said:
Tax avoidance is fine.
Tax evasion is the bad one.
Everyone avoids tax in some way shape or form.
Cripes, salary sacrifice pension savings are a form of tax avoidance, and they are encouraged across the pension industry!
I'm not sure how this tax avoidance thing being bad got started but it's really bad that people see it as bad. If the law allows it, use it! If the law doesn't like it, change the law. Telling people to stop using LEGAL loopholes is stupid
Dave
I know the difference and i did mean tax avoidance, i just think if everyone was on the same rate there would be less opertunity and maybe even desire to avoid paying tax...i just know that at the mo i pay 40% as paye and with NI on top nearly half my pay is gone in tax. I work 84 hrs a week as a minimum...so how is that fair. If i earn 2000, i pay getting on for a grand in stoppages and to make matters worse im out at sea 50% of the time so i see no benifits personally atall!!! I wouldnt feel so bad if everyone was paying this rate, but it gauls me to work so hard and long just to hand it over. I can see why people use EBTs and ltd company companies to AVOID paying this, i just think if it was a fair system they wouldnt have to...............
If I were you I'd be trying to have three months of holidays abroad each year :wink:
I'm in a similar boat to Mr Whippy, but it's all fairly new to me, as of 6 months ago. It was very confusing but I think I did in the end get setup in the most tax efficient (and legal) way. Does that make me a tax dodger?
As for a flat % for everyone, I can't agree to that. Those at the bottom really do need some help, at least they're earning, but anyone on less than £20k shouldn't be paying a great deal IMO. The basic costs of living in this country are too high and £20 to someone on low wages means more to them than £200 to someone on ten times the wage.
I left home at fifteen (violent father) lived on the streets, ate rubbish, dog biscuits and anything else i could to survive..couldnt claim a penny (too young) and diddnt want to be put into care. Ended up a skinhead glue sniffer let me sleep on his settee for a few weeks. So i know what its like at the bottom of the pile and i do think a flat tax rate is fair. I earn good money now and its been through hard work, i pay 30k in tax and the year before last i had to take time off work for personal reasons so i had to sign on...fookin £56 a week, fell behind with my mortage, c cards, loans etc. Yet if i had been on the dole for an extended period i would of been paid (rent or mortage) and i would of been given a special deal from the various finance companies...its a bloddy joke..i pay 40% for what exactly? I pay into a system for years and the one time i need its help it totally lets me down. Yet others get regular, dole, rent, new cars, tax credits. Its just not right
A flat rate is fair and can always be set that those below a certain income don't pay. It's also reasonable that people who earn more, pay more. But not more more.
If all the tax loopholes that the super rich and multi national corporations exploit to pay almost bugger all were closed we'd be able to enjoy a flat tax rate that would probably be less than basic rate is now.
If all the tax loopholes that the super rich and multi national corporations exploit to pay almost bugger all were closed we'd be able to enjoy a flat tax rate that would probably be less than basic rate is now.