Hunter alignment time...

[Ducklakeview]

OK, just sitting in reception watching this get done. Yes, I am in Kwik Fit... BUT the centre manager is a friend, and the guy doing it knows what he's doing, and has done all of my prev cars..

Seeing as I've replaced the lollipops, rtab's and fitted limiters, coupled with the fact that I am now on 15 & 20mm spacers, I'm expecting it to be miles out.

He'd just weighting the car as per the requirements..


Also of note, is that they charge £49 and £25 respectively for front/rear adjustment if it's needed, BUT they now do something called Geo Care for £109, which gives you unlimited checks and 8 free adjustments for 2 years, which I think is a good deal..

Mike

 

[Steve84N]

You'll use 4 of those adjustments today and checks are free in most places...

I was charged £49 just for front toe (I needed a quick fix or otherwise would have gone elsewhere) which is ludicrous and they couldn't do anything other than what the machine says is factory spec rather than say zero toe. I was told it's because the machine is very good and expensive at £250,000 but they are about a tenth of that. Jokers. Someone else was told they couldn't adjust the rear toe.

Fingers crossed your branch is an exception to the rule.

 

[ranski]

Out of interest which model are they choosing in the hunter database for your car?

I have a 3.0se with M suspension and have mine configured as the Z4M. The only time i had a 4 wheel alignment as a E85 3.0 the traction control went loopy and was very twitchy to drive. I took it back, they configured it for the Z4M and all was good afterwards

 

[Ducklakeview]

You'll use 4 of those adjustments today and checks are free in most places...

I was charged £49 just for front toe (I needed a quick fix or otherwise would have gone elsewhere) which is ludicrous and they couldn't do anything other than what the machine says is factory spec rather than say zero toe. I was told it's because the machine is very good and expensive at £250,000 but they are about a tenth of that. Jokers. Someone else was told they couldn't adjust the rear toe.

Fingers crossed your branch is an exception to the rule.

It's 8 further adjustments after today, checked that! The settings are WAY out, which I expected after the work and with the spacers.

I think it's very much luck of the draw with who is doing it, but this guy has done mine before, and is a bit of a petrol head, which means you can actually talk to him lol, which I find helps..

Mike

 

[Ducklakeview]

Out of interest which model are they choosing in the hunter database for your car?

I have a 3.0se with M suspension and have mine configured as the Z4M. The only time i had a 4 wheel alignment as a E85 3.0 the traction control went loopy and was very twitchy to drive. I took it back, they configured it for the Z4M and all was good afterwards

The options for the E85 were "with standard suspension" or "with sports suspension (lowered ride height)

He is using the latter. I've taken pics of the screens before, during and after adjustment, will add when I get home. He's been on it an hour and is only just starting the front adjustments. Rears are now spot on.

Mike

 

[Ducklakeview]

Had a word with the manager. Has confirmed "unlimited" checks and adjustment for 2 years!

Just driven home in the rain, my God! The difference. Car feels firmly planted, also the traction light didn't flash once (DSC partially off as always) even on the last roundabout before home where I normally always get a twitch in the wet!

Will post up results shortly.

One question though. System showed front camber adjustment as being via the strut top mounting bolts, which it said were slotted to allow adjustment. Aparently mine aren't?? Anyone?

Front camber is now -1.4 max, but reading posts the consensus appears to be that more neg camber is better than stock, or am I mistaken?

Mike

 

[Ducklakeview]

Ok,

Here's the results..

Mike

 

[Ducklakeview]

Ok,

So he said he couldn't move the strut tops to reduce the camber..

Just had a look, and they are actually slotted. He only loosened the nuts, and to be fair you can't see the slots as they are covered when the bolt is in the middle of them. I take it the small hex headed bolt is the infamous "camber pin" that I keep seeing mentioned? I unscrewed it and the threaded hole is concentric with the hole in the strut top mount, so assume they've never been out or moved..

Am I ok with the camber I've got now, ideally I'd like it the same either side, so will pop back tomorrow and have it adjusted, but should I increase the OS to match the NS, or reduce vice versa?

Mike

 

[ben g]

You'll use 4 of those adjustments today and checks are free in most places...

I was charged £49 just for front toe (I needed a quick fix or otherwise would have gone elsewhere) which is ludicrous and they couldn't do anything other than what the machine says is factory spec rather than say zero toe. I was told it's because the machine is very good and expensive at £250,000 but they are about a tenth of that. Jokers. Someone else was told they couldn't adjust the rear toe.

Fingers crossed your branch is an exception to the rule.

It's 8 further adjustments after today, checked that! The settings are WAY out, which I expected after the work and with the spacers.

I think it's very much luck of the draw with who is doing it, but this guy has done mine before, and is a bit of a petrol head, which means you can actually talk to him lol, which I find helps..

Mike

How do hubcentric wheel spacers affect the wheel alignment?

 

[Ducklakeview]

How do hubcentric wheel spacers affect the wheel alignment?

They increase the length of the suspension, therefore the load. That's why the car sits ever so slightly lower with them on. It's not a lot, but it does change the geometry.

Mike

 

[Ducklakeview]

Ok. The acid test..

Just taken my Z4 route to work, 10 miles more, but lots of fast twisty country lanes that I know well..

Car feels superb! Much more planted. Next step is to ditch the RFT's..

Mike

 

[pp1600]

I'm looking for the factory settings (geometry) for my coupe but would like to use this current thread to find out more on the Z4's settings.

The settings that have improved your handling have gone from toe-in to toe-out on the front (fractional) which I find strange. Fast road cars have, in my experience, have favoured upto half a degree of toe-in to add straight line feel and predictability under braking. Race cars with toe-out suffer straight line stability with more responsive cornering are the exception.

If there is a z4 suspension guru on the forum please get in touch.

 

[Steve84N]

Mike started with slight toe out on the front which may have felt a bit twitchy but now with factory spec toe in I'd say that's more than you want as it will have numbed the turn in somewhat. Something more like 0.02 either side would be better.

The imbalance on the rear toe is good to get fixed and 0.2 will be quite a stable rear end. I'd rather have about half that for a sharper turning ability.

Front camber just proves the point that they don't fully know what they are doing. You definitely want as much as you can get so increase the low side. However, you probably won't get enough adjustment with the slotted holes to match 1.4.

Whilst rear camber is to spec it's about a degree more than you need. It's designed to make the car very inert but it will wear the inside edges unnecessarily. You'll still be safe with 1.5 but it won't wash out at the front on a long steady turn. A true enthusiast would have explained this to you.

I have about 1.7 on the back of my car simply because it's lowered and I can't get it any less without camber arms. The front is maxed out to about 1.3 and I still get front push and would like more front camber relative to the rear.

 

[Ducklakeview]

Mike started with slight toe out on the front which may have felt a bit twitchy but now with factory spec toe in I'd say that's more than you want as it will have numbed the turn in somewhat. Something more like 0.02 either side would be better.

The imbalance on the rear toe is good to get fixed and 0.2 will be quite a stable rear end. I'd rather have about half that for a sharper turning ability.

Front camber just proves the point that they don't fully know what they are doing. You definitely want as much as you can get so increase the low side. However, you probably won't get enough adjustment with the slotted holes to match 1.4.

Whilst rear camber is to spec it's about a degree more than you need. It's designed to make the car very inert but it will wear the inside edges unnecessarily. You'll still be safe with 1.5 but it won't wash out at the front on a long steady turn. A true enthusiast would have explained this to you.

I have about 1.7 on the back of my car simply because it's lowered and I can't get it any less without camber arms. The front is maxed out to about 1.3 and I still get front push and would like more front camber relative to the rear.

Thanks for the input! Will pull the pin and get him to increase the camber on the other side to match.

Mike

 

[kis]

How do hubcentric wheel spacers affect the wheel alignment?

They increase the length of the suspension, therefore the load. That's why the car sits ever so slightly lower with them on. It's not a lot, but it does change the geometry.

Mike

Does anyone know how they would effect the geometry? More negative camber? Toe?

What about if you changed wheels? 17's to 18's (and vice versa) any changes?

Cheers, Kis.

 

[Ducklakeview]

Changing the wheels shouldn't affect things as long as the offset is not wildly different.

Mike

 

[ben g]

How do hubcentric wheel spacers affect the wheel alignment?

They increase the length of the suspension, therefore the load. That's why the car sits ever so slightly lower with them on. It's not a lot, but it does change the geometry.

Mike

Does anyone know how they would effect the geometry? More negative camber? Toe?

What about if you changed wheels? 17's to 18's (and vice versa) any changes?

Cheers, Kis.

As far as I'm aware, they don't alter any geometry. Never heard anyone having an alignment after fitting wheel spacers.

 

[STUBOY2UK]

The guys who aligned mine said spacers make no difference. I thought it was strange because mathematically it obviously has to make a difference, but maybe just not enough to alter the alignment?!

 

[Ducklakeview]

They increase the length of the suspension, therefore the load. That's why the car sits ever so slightly lower with them on. It's not a lot, but it does change the geometry.

Mike

Does anyone know how they would effect the geometry? More negative camber? Toe?

What about if you changed wheels? 17's to 18's (and vice versa) any changes?

Cheers, Kis.

As far as I'm aware, they don't alter any geometry. Never heard anyone having an alignment after fitting wheel spacers.

Physics says otherwise Ben. You are increasing the effective length of suspension components, so it will have an effect, however marginal.

Mike

 

[hopz121]

Don't take this the wrong way but if he didn't know how to change the front camber knowing there was a camber pin installed then it seems he doesn't really know 100% what he is doing!

Also settings are down to personal preference when I had my Z4 I found factory settings to be twitchy on straight roads and the car didn't fill me with confidence on fast corners either it also used to kill the inside of the rear tyres pretty quickly, I went for something close to M settings in the end and found it transformed the car.