House Windows: UPVC or Wood?

[CornishRob]

I had the same dilemma 6 years ago. I wasn't sure that replacing the (tatty) wooden sash windows with double glazed uPVC would look right (the house was built in 1899 over 3 floors so not easy access for refreshing paintwork)

After obtaining a number of quotes I went for uPVC and still happy with the decision. More so as my next door neighbours had wooden sash windows installed the following year and the paint has already started to flake.

Yes, I think its important to find a house with nice windows. I did see one last night that I drove past just a few roads away and to be honest from the road, I wasn't sure if they were wood or uPVC. I might go and knock on their door and see if they know who did them.

Sometimes it can be hard to see what they are made of. A friend of mine lives in an grade ii listed building and he replaced his windows. Obviously had to get consent etc, but his windows almost look plastic as they came coated in a protective paint system. It looks like they were sprayed, as the paint finish is flawless and almost lost plastic in some lights.

 

[Nictrix]

Do they do sash style uPVC? I haven't seen it yet, and no one has tried to upsell it yet. Will ask the question./quote]

The street I live in was built circa 1885 - most have now been converted into student houses :evil: but recently one conversion included replacement UPVC Sash Windows, so they do exist, and look very nice

I assume you're not in a conservation area.

Sorry, I meant do they do triple glazed sash uPVC? I haven't seen them!

Yes, I have been getting quotes for the uPVC double glazed sash windows, just no one has yet mentioned upgrading to triple glazed uPVC sash.

No, we are not in a conservation area, but I have seen some uPVC sash windows online that are automatically certified to change in a conservation area without any permission required. I haven't looked into it as it doesn't apply to me, but that's what they advertise.

Surely with sash windows they are difficult to get a good seal to keep the cold out/heat in.
Having these with triple glazing seems a waste of time as what you would gain by having triple glazing would be lost by having sash windows.
After just having our windows replaced, speaking to salesmen they say that even tilt and turn windows can be difficult to seal properly and they advise against them.

 

[TitanTim]

Would fitting wooden frames affect the saleability or desirability of the property? Personally I would be put off buying a property with wooden frames to be honest. Just my practical side ease of maintenance over looks.

I've had wooden Windows and it's like the Forth bridge.

Tim.

 

[john-e89]

We're slowly going through the house in hardwood with the sprayed on paint finish your friend has Rob, we've done the front door, side windows and French doors so far. You're right it can be hard to tell from a distance but inside the house they don't have that absolute plastic look, you can tell they're wood. The finish obviously comes from the application, it's superb and gives a very clean, yet not plastic look. Not cheap though but you get a 10 yr guarantee on not having to re-paint them but admittedly hard to justify it over upvc. It's a shame not to do an old property in wood but as has been said cost and maintenance are big factors as you know.

If you go down the plastic route can I just add that you be be aware that a lot of fitters are just foaming plastic windows in nowadays, it's not good enough IMHO, if I install them for customers I always screw them in as well as foam, then point round where appropriate rather than just gallons of silicone, some might disagree with that saying it's not essential and that's fine but I wouldn't be happy just relying on foam. Some of these gangs of 'installers' just chuck them in, quick foam round and off to the next house, I've seen some horrors believe me, so just be aware.

 

[Baza]

Your choice to some degree will be made by how much you want to pay, this is also linked to how long you intend to live there. If this is your starter home and you think you will move within 5/6 years, then apart from some maintainance on timber windows. it probably matters not whether you choose Upvc or timber. Its a matter of cost and personal choice. If you intend to stay longer and are looking for a long(ish) term solution, (and although I have timber windows I would now go for Upvc ). Upvc has come a long way in the last 10 years and now offer as much in the way of insulation/security and looks as timber,without the maintainance issue. There are a huge amount of window producers out there from small to large, In probably 95% of cases they all buy their profiles from mass producers and cut to size and weld together. Some of the smaller companies buy complete windows from larger producers. So how they are put together and the type of fittings and glazing is important. And don't forget some of the small companies may be vulnerable to cash flow and could not be around if you need them in the future. It is worth looking at reputable companies all though most double glazing companies could be compared to some car salesmen. For me I would look at German companies for Upvc yes they may cost more but there quality and engineering is without question. try www.deceuninck.com not sure about sliding sash look alikes but they do have a UK base so easy to talk to there are other German companies like Weru who make most of the profiles used, a look at www. inoutic.de will give you information and idea's. If you decide on timber them www.mumford&wood.com specialise in sliding sash and make an excellent product.

 

[DumfriesDik]

I replaced windows in my old house a couple of decades ago. I am away that technology and specifications may have changed by now. Aluminium windows were thinner than uPVC and did not even try to look like fake wood. They were brown (I think white was an option).

So aluminium windows let in more light than uPVC, they were more secure, had a better longevity and the frames themselves were better insulator than uPVC. BUT they were a bit more expensive. I would look at them again if I was replacing windows.

Remember to get the kite mark on the windows!

 

[CornishRob]

Thanks for the additional information.

I have had a quote from a local company. Basically 10/10 on check a trade with 250+ reviews and been in business for 20+ years, so hopefully a decent company to get a quote from.

To give some indication of figures as a comparison: They are all Box Sash Configuration of either uPVC or Wood.

Anglian uPVC: £15,500
Local Joinery Wood (Hardwood Sill, Softwood Box) £16,000
Local Window Company uPVC: £8,500

I asked the local company for a quote for acoustic glass for the front windows and they have added that to their quote. They also asked me over to their stage unit/showroom and showed me some windows they had in from their manufacturer for a big job they were doing in Putney Highstreet. I think they were installing 45 uPVC sash windows.

They said i would be getting the same windows as they showed me. They did look a decent bit of kit. They had a wood grain effect in the uPVC which i think helped a little to get over the uPVC ness of them.

The quote us fairly basic showing window sizes, price, etc. It specifies:

"To Supply and Fit UPVC Sash Windows with Sash through horns, . Colour White, White Accessories, Glass to be 4/16/4 Clear Soft-coat and toughened where applicable. Finish to be wooden architrave. All rubbish to be removed off site and all making good to be completed by ourselves. All work is covered by a Ten year guarantee and Fensa Certificate."

What sort of other questions should i be asking? I would be keen to know about the type of glass they would be using etc, and i guess energy efficiency of the window etc. Mr Wilks also mentioned to ask about the glazing beads which i will do.

They also said they could let me have a few addresses of properties where they have recently fitted the same windows so i could have a look from the outside.

 

[ranski]

The prices look about right when comparing Anglian to the local window company.

We installed new windows and front door in the new house we are in the start of this year. Anglian quoted £12k while a local company which has been going for some 20 years quoted £8k. We ended up going for the local company and the quality of windows aswell as the fitting service was as good as other house where we had used Anglian.

If we we to buy another place we would use the same local company for the windows

 

[cj10jeeper]

As per Ranski - the local company look the much better bet. We had similar ludicrous price differences of national Vs local.

Stepping aside the wood or upvc piece as that's on decision but if UPVC some extra check I'd make:

Type of lock fitted - Our front door locks with 5 bolts. Windows punch locks into top, bottom and centre of frame
Type of seals - we have double rubber seals our neighbours have a single strip of 'fluffy' pile seal.
Type of beading to avoid theft by removing glass
Adjustable hinges - yep they do need adjusting after time
Choice of colour of spacer between panes of glass.
Type of hinges - if no easy external access - get the type of hinges on those windows that allows you to reach the outside glass
Built in vents that can be opened instead of the windows
Method of fitting - Screwed into brickwork (mentioned by others)
Quality of furniture. We have heavy chrome plated fitting. Out neighbours brass effect have tarnished in <1 year
Ask how they do the window sills. Ours are overboarded so as not to destroy half the wall getting the wood out.

Happy to photo anything that doesn't make sense.

 

[TitanTim]

Blimey why is there such a difference between the 1st and 3rd quotes? a bit ridiculous if you ask me. I think I would be looking at the 3rd quote and see if you can have a look at some customer installs and even chat to them if you can to see how happy they are. I think if I was looking at new windows my priority would be quality of the locks and seals. Our UPVC windows were installed some 23 years ago and I had the same company who installed them round recently to install a UPVC door. The fitter had a look at the windows and commentated they were still looking mint. I think if you can also find a local established company its a little more reasuring. The company I use are really excellent and been around locally for over 30 years and the odd minor problem I've had they've popped round and sorted it free of charge which counts alot in my book.

Tim.

 

[walker1c]

Most UPVC windows ruin the appearance of the old houses they're added to.

They're also a false economy. The wooden sash windows in my house have lasted, with some maintenance, for about 200 years. Try asking the UPVC merchants how many centuries they guarantee their products for. Also, if you have a decent-looking Victorian house, it will be worth more with original features than with tacky replacement windows.

I recently had several of my windows overhauled by Ventrolla, who did a very good job. In particular, they manufactured a new sash that was a perfect replica of the one it was replacing.

 

[TitanTim]

Most UPVC windows ruin the appearance of the old houses they're added to.

They're also a false economy. The wooden sash windows in my house have lasted, with some maintenance, for about 200 years. Try asking the UPVC merchants how many centuries they guarantee their products for. Also, if you have a decent-looking Victorian house, it will be worth more with original features than with tacky replacement windows.

I recently had several of my windows overhauled by Ventrolla, who did a very good job. In particular, they manufactured a new sash that was a perfect replica of the one it was replacing.

UPVC windows can be good quality but their advantage is being maintenance free bar a wipe over as opposed to painting wooden windows probably every few years or so to ensure logevity, I guess if your happy to do that yourself or pay someone to do that then not so much of a problem. I think UPVC windows have come a long way in recent years and are made to blend in more sympathetically with older properties these days. I wouldn't say fitting UPVC is a tacky way of doing it to be honest, its how maintenance free and secure you want the windows to be. From a security angle I would be less happy with wooden windows.

Tim.

 

[john-e89]

In my opinion uPVC windows and doors are the best. I got them fitted few months back and couldn’t be happier. I used my local window and door company HomeDecisions (Romford,London). With this company you can choose double and triple glazed windows, which are excellent for reducing noise from the outside, and also keeping heat inside your home during winter. With triple glazed windows, you would be extremely safe in your home, because with their profiles and triple glazes glass that they do, it would be impossible for anyone to get in. They were really helpful from day one, they explained about different types window frame profiles and glass. They are using REHAU profiles, which are super safe and extremely low maintenance. I chose tilt and turn function, windows open in two ways, and there is also a ventilation system. Even if the window looks fully closed fresh air is coming in, can you imagine that? This company can advise you, help you choose a frame, then a color (they have LOADS of them!), they will do measurements, remove you old windows and fit you brand new ones. They even have windows sills and many different kinds of blinds, all of it in one place. And the prices are really low, comparing with other companies. You can check them out at http://www.homedecisions.co.uk

Hey Anna have you seen the time..? 1pm, time for your lunch break at homedescisions.... :wink:

 

[TitanTim]

:lol:

Tim.

 

[jimmybell]

Before buying my house, the previous owner put uPVC windows in throughout the house. Granted, lovely to have that extra insulation and the look tidier than tatty old wooden windows (Victorian Terrace), if i could go back and gift her the cash to put in proper wooden windows i'd do it in a heartbeat.

In new houses? sure, PVC all the way. In an old house? You typically seem to get cheaper glazing (you can tell by looking at the glass the strange reflections you often see on glass installed with cheap uPVC) and a shiny plastic finish (the fake woodgrain upvc looks even more tacky imo) and it stands out a mile away.

In terms of house value, i'm confident my house would be worth more if wooden windows, as, kinda like with Z4 parts, that no expense was spared. Cheap windows can hint towards cutting corners elsewhere.

It's a matter of personal taste in the end, i'd not say its worth breaking the bank - but if the cost difference is negligible, and i mean quality uPVC vs Quality wood, i'd do it. Evidently from what i've written my preference be towards wood (i put wood in my refurbished kitchen, and metal bifolds).

EDIT: We also have a UPVC door, which the previous owner swapped in place of the old (apparently lovely) wooden door. I'll be swapping it back.

Before committing, i'd definitely ask for some addresses of houses where you can see examples of their work.

 

[pvr]

Nice thread revival after a year Jimmy, there was a spammer in between :lol:

Just to add to the discussion, I hate the PVC stuff as it is not maintenance free - the locks fail within years and as they keep changing, you can not get replacements. The handles fall off, they seem to be fitted with cr*p glass that shows condensation and so on.

 

[jimmybell]

Nice thread revival after a year Jimmy, there was a spammer in between :lol:

Balls.

Tim's reply threw me off. I wonder what CornishRob did in the end?