Heel and toe...
- Thread starter Kingash
- Start date
Paulwirral
Active member
I learnt on buckets of crap that wouldn't tick over or would stall , think capris escorts and cortinas of the early 80s , it's second nature to the extent of people always comment on it , bike riders especially .
Instead of trying to do it driving quickly when your concentrating on other things do it every time you stop at a junction or lights , pretend your car will cut out when stopping , you will soon get into the habit and then transfer it to driving quickly , it worked for me
Instead of trying to do it driving quickly when your concentrating on other things do it every time you stop at a junction or lights , pretend your car will cut out when stopping , you will soon get into the habit and then transfer it to driving quickly , it worked for me
I was trying to practice just on the driveway after watching a few vids of the technique and i just can't get my foot in the angles, the throttle is a tad low, maybe I need a plate or something
i used to ride bikes, supermoto's in general and i had no trouble backing them in, a lot easier. I feel better on a bike them in a car tbh
i used to ride bikes, supermoto's in general and i had no trouble backing them in, a lot easier. I feel better on a bike them in a car tbh
Paulwirral said:
Yeah I had the same thing. A MK1 Golf scrapper when I was at college that had no tickover.
Every time I cleaned the pilot jet, it would block up almost immediately due to crap in the tank. It would actually stall going up the the box if you didn't keep some throttle on / slam it home
Kingash said:
I'm also a biker, bit of a two stroke nut.
I just used the throttle cover from something like this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACS-AC-MT-Gas-Brake-Clutch-Pedal-For-BMW-E92-E46-E36-Z3-Z4-M3-M5-M6-E60-E90-/201031721939?hash=item2ece6ca3d3
Where abouts in Essex are you? I'm in East London, happy to meet up one evening, if that helps.
For those of us with larger feet (mine are size 11/12, and some suit shoes can actually brush the underside of the dash), you can always try "rolling" your foot - use the ball of your foot and big toe on the brake pedal and the outside of your foot on the throttle. You can't get quite the same amount of movement as a proper heel & toe, but enough for it to work well nonetheless. Especially straightforward with the sport button engaged.
As with others I learnt on snotters shortly after passing my test. I had a 106 diesel which didn't strictly require heel and toe but it was pretty damn awkward to manage, so getting the hang of it on that car made it heaps easier in future cars.
I would definitely say the coupe (and therefore all z4s?) pedal box is just cracking for heel and toe - the pedals are perfect spaced, it feels rude not to!
I would definitely say the coupe (and therefore all z4s?) pedal box is just cracking for heel and toe - the pedals are perfect spaced, it feels rude not to!
Ed Doe said:As with others I learnt on snotters shortly after passing my test. I had a 106 diesel which didn't strictly require heel and toe but it was pretty damn awkward to manage, so getting the hang of it on that car made it heaps easier in future cars.
I would definitely say the coupe (and therefore all z4s?) pedal box is just cracking for heel and toe - the pedals are perfect spaced, it feels rude not to!
I must be the problem then haha, did try it again today no luck though, will keep at it. Just seems the throttle is a touch low for me
ga41 said:Like Marvin-HHGTTG said I find that I prefer that same method of heel-toeing on my Z4M even though I'm only a size 9-9.5 UK. (The method is the one on the left in the picture below)
I use the technique on the left in both my ///M and my S2000, but my feet are too big to allow this in my Westfield where I use the technique on the right. I've posted pictures of my throttle pedal modification that solves the poorly spaced pedals in the ///M. I can try to find them again if wanted.
My S2000 pedals are perfectly positioned and the throw of the shifter is really short, which makes for the perfect gear change. BMW could learn a thing or two!
BMWZ4MC said:ga41 said:Like Marvin-HHGTTG said I find that I prefer that same method of heel-toeing on my Z4M even though I'm only a size 9-9.5 UK. (The method is the one on the left in the picture below)
I use the technique on the left in both my ///M and my S2000, but my feet are too big to allow this in my Westfield where I use the technique on the right. I've posted pictures of my throttle pedal modification that solves the poorly spaced pedals in the ///M. I can try to find them again if wanted.
My S2000 pedals are perfectly positioned and the throw of the shifter is really short, which makes for the perfect gear change. BMW could learn a thing or two!
I did try this when i popped out of work an hour or so ago, struggled to bring my toe up enough without being uncomfortable, don't help that I have a metal rod in my shin bone from a bike accident, i don't have as much movement in bringing my toe up as what i should. If you could post your mod it would be appreciated
This is a pedal extension made from the end of a steel rule and a rubber foot. It's trapped under the pedal cover. It can be pivoted up and down to change its height on the pedal to match the prominent border of a shoe and in and out to make it protrude more or less depending on shoe width. When someone else drives my car, I tuck it out of the way so they don't inadvertently stamp on the throttle whilst braking.
That's a good idea, so might sound stupid is the heel supposed to be under the brake so you pivot to throttle or under the throttle so you pivot to brake?BMWZ4MC said:This is a pedal extension made from the end of a steel rule and a rubber foot. It's trapped under the pedal cover. It can be pivoted up and down to change its height on the pedal to match the prominent border of a shoe and in and out to make it protrude more or less depending on shoe width. When someone else drives my car, I tuck it out of the way so they don't inadvertently stamp on the throttle whilst braking.
The first way i tried i couldn't be progressive on the brakes as i was trying to hard to roll/pivot onto the throttle.
Second way I found i couldn't lift my toe high enough to do both at the same time, i ended up pressing the brake to hard and it over revved
What way should i persist with? I definitely think I need some new pedal covers
Is your Zed an ///M? The brakes on mine are very heavily assisted by the servo, so heel and toe can be difficult at low speeds. The tendency is to over brake whilst trying to blip the throttle, especially due to the throttle pedal being lower than the brake. Also, the brake and throttle pedals are fairly widely spaced, so it's easy to entirely miss the throttle pedal if you're wearing dress shoes or if you have narrow feet. The pedal covers raise the throttle pedal without significantly raising the brake pedal (an idea c/o Exdos), so help with the former problem, whilst my pedal extension helps with the latter.
I'd suggest sitting stationary with the car in neutral and the engine running, then practising the movement by blipping the throttle whilst pressing the brake pedal. Once you've got the hang of that, switch off the engine and practice coordinating that with downshifting and using the clutch pedal. When you can do it whilst stationary, find an empty road and try it whilst braking fairly firmly from reasonably high speed - that way you won't be braking harder than you need.
On the track I combine heel and toe with double declutching if I'm dropping down a gear at high rpm, as entering a gear at 8,000 rpm demands a great deal from the synchromesh. This is allows engine braking to contribute to deceleration without any risk of the synchro bulking the gear change or locking the rears through under rev matching (although in my Westfield under rev matching is an excellent way of inducing oversteer when turning into tight hairpins, a little like momentarily pulling on the handbrake). My S2000 will happily exceed 40mph in first gear, so I use this combination to drop into first and keep the revs in the VTEC range through tight corners. This makes for pretty lairy cornering on wet roads
I use my first MTPJ and hallux on the brake pedal and roll my foot into supination to allow the lateral border of my foot to blip the throttle. That is, I use my big toe and ball of my foot on the brake and roll the foot over until the outer edge of my foot touches the throttle - this is where the pedal extension really helps. The movement is similar to that experienced when rolling the ankle during an ankle sprain.
I'd suggest sitting stationary with the car in neutral and the engine running, then practising the movement by blipping the throttle whilst pressing the brake pedal. Once you've got the hang of that, switch off the engine and practice coordinating that with downshifting and using the clutch pedal. When you can do it whilst stationary, find an empty road and try it whilst braking fairly firmly from reasonably high speed - that way you won't be braking harder than you need.
On the track I combine heel and toe with double declutching if I'm dropping down a gear at high rpm, as entering a gear at 8,000 rpm demands a great deal from the synchromesh. This is allows engine braking to contribute to deceleration without any risk of the synchro bulking the gear change or locking the rears through under rev matching (although in my Westfield under rev matching is an excellent way of inducing oversteer when turning into tight hairpins, a little like momentarily pulling on the handbrake). My S2000 will happily exceed 40mph in first gear, so I use this combination to drop into first and keep the revs in the VTEC range through tight corners. This makes for pretty lairy cornering on wet roads
I use my first MTPJ and hallux on the brake pedal and roll my foot into supination to allow the lateral border of my foot to blip the throttle. That is, I use my big toe and ball of my foot on the brake and roll the foot over until the outer edge of my foot touches the throttle - this is where the pedal extension really helps. The movement is similar to that experienced when rolling the ankle during an ankle sprain.