Hard braking - Keeping her straight

R60BBA said:
mjennings23 said:
R60BBA said:
Just got in my car and noticed that the bite of the EBC Redstuff pads when cold aren’t as good as stock.

Perhaps this is because of their ceramic compound?
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Let me know how you get on with these, I've read some advice that the Redstuff is designed for bigger cars, and Yellowstuff is more often recommended for the Z4.

Currently between the Yellowstuff or Mintex M1144 decision myself so would be good to get some input.
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I’ve had no issues with the Redstuff pads. I’d say the braking/stopping power is the same as stock however the Redstufff last a lot longer (less susceptibile to fade).

Minor issues: I’ve noticed that I have to notch my handbrake a little bit higher for it to bite and sometimes the offside front disc makes a squeaking noise. Not too fussed or concerned about this as apparently new discs can squeak until they are fully bedded in.

Which pads did you go for in the end?
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Got a set of yellowstuff at home waiting for a decent day to fit, along with some ATE TYP200 fluid. They were significantly cheaper than any alternatives from Mintex, Performance Friction etc so figured it's no harm. All the negative reviews seem to be from years back anyway so we shall see how it goes.
 
Went back to BMS for some Dot 5 fluid and a general pre-roadtrip/Nurburgring inspection.

The Zed is mint according to Kev and Lee 8)
 

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Another quick update.

Just did 2 laps at the Nordschleife yesterday and noticed that in the 1st lap I got brake fade after just 6 mins of driving and by around 8 mins I had brake judder.

After cooling her down, in the 2nd lap I decided to try and drive off the brakes as much as possible and instead use the gears (where appropriate). However I still noticed brake fade after about 7 mins of driving and got brake judder right at the end.

I was a bit disappointed but hey ho I still enjoyed driving the car on the Nurburgring!
 
Describe 'brake fade'?

If you're just getting judder that's normal and you'll get through that by braking harder.

I'd suspect what's happening is you're dragging the brakes too much, which (and don't take this the wrong way) is normal for someone relatively new to track driving, or when driving on a circuit you don't know. You're essentially approaching with more caution, so you're braking earlier than necessary. You'll therefore be on the brake pedal for longer periods, but using less peak brake force, which means you're putting the same heat into the brakes, but over longer periods, and with shorter periods off the brakes to let them cool. Does that make any sense?

I've done a few trackdays previously with completely OEM discs and pads and had no issues with brakes other than the pedal going marginally longer, which is to be expected. I had brake judder during the first couple of sessions, but this went as I gained confidence and started using the brakes harder and later.

Just my tuppence worth - I'm jolly jealous of your ring trip though - did you take any videos/photos? Dead keen to get out there at some point!
 
Ed Doe said:
Describe 'brake fade'?

If you're just getting judder that's normal and you'll get through that by braking harder.

I'd suspect what's happening is you're dragging the brakes too much, which (and don't take this the wrong way) is normal for someone relatively new to track driving, or when driving on a circuit you don't know. You're essentially approaching with more caution, so you're braking earlier than necessary. You'll therefore be on the brake pedal for longer periods, but using less peak brake force, which means you're putting the same heat into the brakes, but over longer periods, and with shorter periods off the brakes to let them cool. Does that make any sense?

I've done a few trackdays previously with completely OEM discs and pads and had no issues with brakes other than the pedal going marginally longer, which is to be expected. I had brake judder during the first couple of sessions, but this went as I gained confidence and started using the brakes harder and later.

Just my tuppence worth - I'm jolly jealous of your ring trip though - did you take any videos/photos? Dead keen to get out there at some point!
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I've mentioned this to others and they have said more or less as yourself. The only reason I mentioned it on here is because when I took my 116D to the Ring in 2015, I did two laps with stock brakes and no issues whatsoever. I guess it's just a different ball game with higher horsepower vehicles. (I still managed to get under 10 mins on my 4th ever lap of the Nordschleife so was pleased overall).

I took loads of photos and I also made a short film.

Enjoy: https://youtu.be/y0ymv8jOC0Y
 
I'd agree - 116d is a different thing to a coupe - it'll likely be over braked for the power :lol:

Good effort on the sub-10 - I'll watch the vid now :)
 
If you mean that irritating squeak.

Possibly a warped disc but most likely a bushing about to fail.

If you stop the car, stand on the sill and bounce does it still squeak?
 
Warped disc or possibly handbrake shoes if coming from the rear?

Do you get any judder through pedal?

What was the last thing you did before it started squeaking? Is this after a track day or something?

Sticking caliper possibly?
 
hopz121 said:
Warped disc or possibly handbrake shoes if coming from the rear?

Do you get any judder through pedal?

What was the last thing you did before it started squeaking? Is this after a track day or something?

Sticking caliper possibly?
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The discs are only 3,000 miles old (as are pads) so can’t be warped.

I don’t get any brake judder. (Had some during my 2 laps of the Nurburgring but none before and none since).

The noise started about 1.5 months ago but has progressively gotten worse. The noise seems to only occur when the brakes are warm, if they are cold I don’t get the noise.

I have noticed that I have to pull my handbrake higher for it to work, but I don’t know if this is related.

The noise also occurs when I am turning at slow speeds (for example when parking in a car park).

Since the development of the noise many people stare, which is quite embarrassing as they are staring for the wrong reason.

Any ideas or solutions would be much appreciated.
 
Monkeydonkeyratmagic said:
If you mean that irritating squeak.

Possibly a warped disc but most likely a bushing about to fail.

If you stop the car, stand on the sill and bounce does it still squeak?
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Got my mum to stand on the drivers door sill and the noise appeared - check the link

https://youtu.be/IzCLyPBhJpM
 
R60BBA said:
The discs are only 3,000 miles old (as are pads) so can’t be warped.
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Yes it can be

Discs warp or run out of true call it what you like is mostly caused by heat which you had plenty of on your first laps of the Nordschleife ring for a lump of metal to be warmed up to a point where it becomes malleable and then cool down the same shape it needs no external forces applied to it and cooled evenly.

If you stopped with hot discs you have the ability to cool then unevenly just by having the brake pads absorbing some heat or retaining some heat as there is more local heat, the thing to do is drive like miss Daisy until everything is cooled off then stop.

When stopped if you put the handbrake on with hot rear discs you can make the read handbrake drums go oval.

Another thing excessive heat can do with hot discs when stopped is transfer heat into the pads then the pistons and then the fluid so with next to no cooling the temp of the fluid goes up and potentially above the opperating temp for the fluid.

When I was track daying my Westfield 255BHP and 510kgs fuelled I saw loads of people do the above one young lad in a new Porsche parked next to me and the heat coming from the car was unbearable so helped he preserve his brakes and bank balance turned out it the Porsche was his girlfriends he had something more expensive but was great full of the advice.

Hope that makes sense if not other may explain it better. (engineer not a typist)
 
The noise occurred 3 weeks before my trip to the Ring...

(I’m fully aware of problems that are associated with not letting discs cool down before stopping after hard run or applying the handbrake for that matter...)

Please check the link, it looks like the pads rubbing on the disc is the culprit.

However I don’t know how to fix this?
 
If it is the pad rubbing on the back of the piston and pad carrier part of the calliper a small amount of high temp Molykote grease should reduce or remove the noise if it is pad to disc try a different pad compound.
 
I’ve noticed that the noise only occurs when the handbrake is up (when jumping on the door sill in a stationary position). If I jump on the sill with the handbrake down there is no noise...
 
hopz121 said:
Did you change the handbrake shoes when fitting the new discs?
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I didn’t personally do the job so I don’t know. But I didn’t supply this part to the garage who did the work either so I presume not.

Why do you ask?
 
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