Handling Issues - me or the car?

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Morning,
Now had my new car for just over a week and the smile/pound ratio is definitely up there! But, theres been a couple of times where the bum cheeks have clenched proper tight.....
When i brake hard and go into a corner the car seems to squirm about at the front. Once, the palms got very sweaty and i had to give myself a good talking to, especially as there was a ditch on the other side of the road. Dont think the previous owner would have been impressed with that one!
So, although i freely admit to being a complete novice driver as far as sports cars are concerned, is it me and my luddite style of driving or should i be looking at fixing something? Polybush the front end maybe? the car is a 2003 aafaik has never had any bush work.
 
Do you know if its had new shocks on the front?

Having done all suspension works before on cars from bushes, ARB etc, the single most impactful change to handling was new shocks-
 
Morning,
As someone who was brought up on RWD cars, Escorts, then 30 years of Capris, the words brake and corner should never be seen together IMO.
There are much better drivers than I who will explain it much better, but basically, get your braking done in a straight line, select the gear you need for the corner, keep a constant light throttle until the apex then gently apply more throttle as the corner starts to open out.
Try it slow to get the hang of it, then increase the 'performance' as you get used to it.
If you are braking in a corner, all the grip is on the outer front wheel and the back is free to find its own way. If you are still driving the back wheels in the bend then only the inside front wheel. is unloaded.
Of course, it could all be tired suspension too, but until you are driving it correctly in the bends you will not be able to quantify exactly where the problem lies.
Apologies if any of that sounds patronising.
 
I remember driving my new purchase home on the motorway thinking it was trying to kill me... turns out it was the run flats tram lining along any groove or imperfection on the road. I’d check there before moving onto bushes / suspension.
 
bigwinn said:
Do you know if its had new shocks on the front?

Having done all suspension works before on cars from bushes, ARB etc, the single most impactful change to handling was new shocks-
Click to expand...
I think its had new springs to lower the car but is still on original shocks........sounds expensive

Run flats have been removed thankfully.
 
enuff_zed said:
Morning,
As someone who was brought up on RWD cars, Escorts, then 30 years of Capris, the words brake and corner should never be seen together IMO.
There are much better drivers than I who will explain it much better, but basically, get your braking done in a straight line, select the gear you need for the corner, keep a constant light throttle until the apex then gently apply more throttle as the corner starts to open out.
Try it slow to get the hang of it, then increase the 'performance' as you get used to it.
If you are braking in a corner, all the grip is on the outer front wheel and the back is free to find its own way. If you are still driving the back wheels in the bend then only the inside front wheel. is unloaded.
Of course, it could all be tired suspension too, but until you are driving it correctly in the bends you will not be able to quantify exactly where the problem lies.
Apologies if any of that sounds patronising.
Click to expand...
No, not patronising! id be the first to admit my inexperience. I ride motorbikes a lot so i did wonder if i was applying the same sort of style to the car. I think (although ive not totally analysed my driving style yet as the two incidents happened so bloody quick) that im hard on the brakes upto the corner, then off brakes as i go into it. I was wondering if the car was nose down with the brakes on then as i release to go round, the front end is going light and then wanders about. Does that sound feasible?
 
I agree with Bigwinn about the shock absorbers. If your car is '03 and it's still on its original Sachs shocks then they WILL be goosed. Fit 4 new Bilstein B4s all round (I did) and the car will be transformed. However and possibly more importantly is the car still on runflat tyres ? If it is or if it isn't then what state are they in ? Changing tyres all round to decent non-runflats will also massively effect how the car behaves on the road. If you're still driving runflats then before anything else get rid of them. Also fitting new lower front control arms with bushes and lollipops will also tighten things up.
It's not cheap 'investing' in an early Z4 but the car is now 17 years old and time takes its toll :thumbsup:
 
Ratcatcher said:
enuff_zed said:
Morning,
As someone who was brought up on RWD cars, Escorts, then 30 years of Capris, the words brake and corner should never be seen together IMO.
There are much better drivers than I who will explain it much better, but basically, get your braking done in a straight line, select the gear you need for the corner, keep a constant light throttle until the apex then gently apply more throttle as the corner starts to open out.
Try it slow to get the hang of it, then increase the 'performance' as you get used to it.
If you are braking in a corner, all the grip is on the outer front wheel and the back is free to find its own way. If you are still driving the back wheels in the bend then only the inside front wheel. is unloaded.
Of course, it could all be tired suspension too, but until you are driving it correctly in the bends you will not be able to quantify exactly where the problem lies.
Apologies if any of that sounds patronising.
Click to expand...
No, not patronising! id be the first to admit my inexperience. I ride motorbikes a lot so i did wonder if i was applying the same sort of style to the car. I think (although ive not totally analysed my driving style yet as the two incidents happened so bloody quick) that im hard on the brakes upto the corner, then off brakes as i go into it. I was wondering if the car was nose down with the brakes on then as i release to go round, the front end is going light and then wanders about. Does that sound feasible?
Click to expand...
Worth a try. Only need to be off the brakes a second or two early so the car can settle. As you say, you are taking all the weight off the wheels then immediately trying to put a turning motion into them. The outer front will be suddenly loaded while trying to turn as well. That can't help. Like I said, brake-stabilise-turn-accelerate. Try it in an exaggerated form ,then build up.
Still just as likely to be suspension though, but like all these things, you have to eliminate one thing at a time.
 
quote]When i brake hard and go into a corner the car seems to squirm about at the front.[/quote]
I am by no means an expert but I was tought to brake on the straight change to the correct gear and then accelerate through the corner.
Also if you are used to driving a front wheel driver car which has a lot of weight
at the front they handle differently (generally more forgiving) to the rear wheel driver of a Zed
 
patriot66 said:
I agree with Bigwinn about the shock absorbers. If your car is '03 and it's still on its original Sachs shocks then they WILL be goosed. Fit 4 new Bilstein B4s all round (I did) and the car will be transformed.
It's not cheap 'investing' in an early Z4 but the car is now 17 years old and time takes its toll :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
Just looked. £300 all round, thats not too bad at all. But youre right, i suspect this car is going to suck me dry for a while...oooeeer.

So bit of suspension fettling then off to the race track to take some lessons? Sounds like fun. :wink:
 
I wonder if the steering geometry/alignment is ok?

If someone has been messing around previously they could have tried to ‘tweak it’

The cars behaviour sounds a bit like the front steering geometry is not correct...an alignment, especially post new shocks would be a good idea IMHO..
 
Richfarr said:
I am by no means an expert but I was tought to brake on the straight change to the correct gear and then accelerate through the corner.
Also if you are used to driving a front wheel driver car which has a lot of weight
at the front they handle differently (generally more forgiving) to the rear wheel driver of a Zed
Click to expand...

There's an echo in here. :poke: :D
 
The Z is inherently a very stable car. You should be able to take significant liberties with it braking into corners without any major dramas. I’m certain you have worn bushes or bad alignment (particular if it’s been lowered and not re-checked). Shocks also pretty certain to be way past their best if original.

My E85 is incredibly stable on bends albeit a little twitchy in a straight line as it does tend to follow ruts and road camber. I think it just makes it feel more alive!
 
what tyres and pressures are you running, front and back? wanna be sure the basics are right before moving onto suspension mods...
 
brillomaster said:
what tyres and pressures are you running, front and back? wanna be sure the basics are right before moving onto suspension mods...
Click to expand...

+1 for tyre pressure, I had a similar arse twitching moment recently as when the garage changed my tyres they put too much air in them. Dropped 6 lbs, different car
 
What pressure do you guys run your tyres at on the e86/86 platform with non-runflats?

I have only realised a year in that the pressure guide on the inside of the drivers door is for runflats...

I have often been driving at 170 and 130 I believe...
 
It doesn't sound right and if it's squirming whilst braking before the bend (i.e. in a straight line) I would systematically go through examining parts and eliminating them in a rough order of likelihood before spending randomly. Applying logic that the problem starts at the contact patch between road and tyre from experience having had to correct all the below over the years I would, check

- Tyres are not RFT's, are matched, in good condition, and pressures are correct (did someone mention pressures :oops: )

- Wheels are straight and undamaged

- Brakes are instigating the squirming in a straight line, so must be eliminated. The Z4 calipers move on slide pins that get gummed up and corroded so start sticking. The pistons will be corroded and prone to sticking by now an early car. Discs need to be examined for service thickness and warping. Any of these problems will cause your squirming.

- Front suspension bushes and links, most will have needed replacing by now, sloppy drop links, lower rear control arm (known as 'lollypops) and anti-roll bar are all favourites that need to be eliminated. I've done all of these and they are not huge jobs. Others will recommend differently but I'd not recommend poly bushes if you want to retain good compliance (that will start a debate :lol: ). I've actually removed polly's that were too harsh and caused twitchiness.

- Springs, all four are prone to breaking of the ends, rears more so. Most broke within a few years and will have been replaced, sometimes with incorrect size as there is confusion over lower sport and standard SE sizes. Or with mismatched front rear. I returned mine to standard spec.

- Dampers, of course need checking as mentioned by others. If they are original probably tired, but oil stains are the give-away.

- Once you have eliminated all the above and replaced what what needed, then spend on a good four wheel alignment, this was the final part in my long campaign to eliminate twitchy handling having replaced tyres that were shagged, brake calipers and disc all round due to corrosion, plus the springs, bushes and suspension parts mentioned.

One tip, track rod ends on these cars are notorious for seizing and frequently need replacing for the alignment to be done, some less scrupulous alignment jockeys either don't do the job or will just do the one side (possibly leaving you with a slightly off centre steering wheel. It's worth spraying some proper penetrating fluid on the track rod ends a day before the alignment to give them a chance of cracking of the seized thread, it might save a replacement if you are lucky.

Hopefully you have access to a decent jack and stands, in which case all the above can be examined with a wheel removed. Let us know how it goes and don't be tempted to address possible electric power steering problems that will inevitably be suggested until you are sure all the above basics are covered-off. Once sorted it will be like it's on rails :driving:
:D
 
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