Guns aren't toys

S

Stuart Truman

Lifer
 The Cotswolds
I saw the following article going around Facebook which made me sigh.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/11/guns-child-deaths-more-than-cancer/2073259/

I hate guns but the press likes to sensationalise and posting it up as a link for forum discussion that inevitably gets heated as the pro and anti camps circle their respective wagons and dig in just resurrects an argument we've all done to death.

Anyhow, I'm in Vegas and was out with my team when they spotted a gun store with a public range and they came over all childlike. I'm not a party pooper and it was too hot to wait outside so in I go.

At what point did manufacturers start making guns look like toys? A pink assault rifle!?! Small brightly coloured hand guns? "My first lethal weapon"?

If these are available no wonder there are children dying. I don't want a gun control discussion, we've done it to death. But guns designed to be attractive to kids are sick.

[/rant]
 
It's really sad when the US media writes an article and presents it as truth, when the article source is an anti-gun lobby group ("Source: Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence"). Everything in that article is political propaganda.

Here are some true facts, not about child injuries, but about fatalities in the USA:

In 2010, there were 31,076 gun related deaths in the USA. 19,392 of those were suicides. So, 11,684 actual gun homicides or accidents.
In 2010, there were 569,490 cancer deaths in the USA according to the American Cancer Society.

So, in 2010, the deaths caused by cancer were almost 49 times that of the unintentional death by guns. So, the implication that guns are more dangerous than cancer is actually just an outright lie.

Also, pink guns are targeted to women, not children. Children cannot buy or own firearms in the USA.
 
I do find the American mentality about guns pretty odd.....

I both work in and visit the USA at least 6 times a year, and last year finally decided to visit a public gun range...

basically after 1 minute of training from a drunk guy who was 'in charge' I was let loose with a 9mm and live ammo...

Here's my "Glock"

1A5B4EA9-EB8B-4A95-9C37-C95B9093CC4B-233-00000015891EC06A.jpg


At first it was quite scary, but after a few magazines it really does become really easy, and I can see how people can just pull the trigger without thinking things through....

The thing is though.... I had my rounds, gave the gun back and at no time thought about shooting people or using it for violence.... so as I say, the mentality is all wrong..... (IMO)

I ended up talking to a young guy at the range.... wow your Scotterlish as usual etc, and he couldn't believe we don't use guns over here.... I calmly explained I believe guns are for pussies and if we want to kill someone we'll do it by hand or a knife... up close and personal...

we talked for a bit more... but I don't think I got through to him.... until I put him on his backside in a choke that could kill him before he got his super gun out it's holster.... I think it was a decent demonstration for him.... thankfully I didn't get shot, and we went for a beer instead.... lol

anyway... guns don't kill people.... it's people (or wappppppers), guns just get the blame..... a bit like how 'speed' kills you... :rolleyes:
 
tgurske said:
It's really sad when the US media writes an article and presents it as truth, when the article source is an anti-gun lobby group ("Source: Brady Campaign to End Gun Violence"). Everything in that article is political propaganda.

Here are some true facts, not about child injuries, but about fatalities in the USA:

In 2010, there were 31,076 gun related deaths in the USA. 19,392 of those were suicides. So, 11,684 actual gun homicides or accidents.
In 2010, there were 569,490 cancer deaths in the USA according to the American Cancer Society.

So, in 2010, the deaths caused by cancer were almost 49 times that of the unintentional death by guns. So, the implication that guns are more dangerous than cancer is actually just an outright lie.

Also, pink guns are targeted to women, not children. Children cannot buy or own firearms in the USA.
Click to expand...


Wether cancer kills more people than guns is of little interest to me .........11,684 violent deaths is though
 
tgurske said:
Also, pink guns are targeted to women, not children. Children cannot buy or own firearms in the USA.
Click to expand...

I didn't suggest children were allowed to buy or own, I said designed to be attractive to kids. They're guns and they're brightly coloured. They look like toys. In the UK, the BB guns have to be made in fluorescent colours as the police were getting confused with replicas. These things look just like that.

Anybody who designs these things needs to take a long hard think about what they are doing.
 
I wanted to go shooting when I was in Vegas. Half of me still wants to have a go...

Anyway, thought this was interesting from the article posted :

— In 49 percent of unintentional shooting deaths, the victim is shot by another person.

So unintentional (not suicide) therefore 51% of people are killing themselves unintentionally ???
 
It's funny how, well it's not funny at all, but anyway, how when we look at gun ownership we always pick on the good old USA and forget about this

187fc5b7407af97bed1f97d6fa535db5_zpseeda9ed2.jpg


People kill, we are not civilised, how can we complain about 11,000 gun victims and not care about the 100,000's killed in even less civilised nations where our collective nations SELL these weapons too in the name of capitalism.

Just saying, people kill, not guns.......the difference is only efficiency
 
I agree SARS. I'm not picking on the US per se. If the gun shop had been in another country I'd have posted the same thing.

My argument is with the morons that take a tool designed to kill and make it "pretty". It's not pretty, it's a tool designed to take life.
 
I used to play with a Lone Ranger toy pistol when I was a kid in the 60's. It had those paper strips that made a popping sound when one pulled the trigger. But I managed to go through the next 40 years without killing someone. What is the difference between me and the kids now. That my friends is very, Very easy. UPBRINGING, Having responsible parents. My father taught me about how to respect the dangers of a gun. I was not allowed to snoop around my parents room. My father may have had a pistol in his night stand. I knew better than to look in there. Because I was raised to respect the authority of my elders.

In my eyes. It's a societal problem that has manifested it self through guns. Not because of guns. We had guns in the 60's while I was growing up. We didn't have nearly the "gun" problems we do now.
I would bet a months wages. That in England. If one has a misbehaving child in public. And one was to give them a swat on the bottom to redirect their child's attention. They would probably have a stranger call the police. As there are rules against such things and is seen as an abuse. It's that way in America as well.

Look at what the California school board did just this year. They choose to alter the rules so that if a child or teenager causes a disruption in class. The school is not allowed to remove said child from the classroom. Yup! Let's ruin the education of the many, Because of the actions of a few. Even the very liberal governor of California realized this is ridiculous. He vetoed the rule.
Look at the ungoverned access that many kids have to the internet and television. Look at the high level of uninvolved parents. Kid's are not as stupid as we think. They are sponges that soak up bad things just as readily as good things. They have learned from a very liberal society. That they can and do get away with a lot of trouble making without any consequences. And should a parent try to instill some discipline. Beware! There is a multi-lettered government agency watching for such people.
 
"But guns designed to be attractive to kids are sick"

They are not designed to be attractive to kids. They are designed to be attractive to simple minded American.



Just like to say that I'm not implying stupidity is a disease that only Americans can have. We have plenty of infected people here. We just don't let them buy guns.
 
I think the difference is that in Britain we learn from mass shootings, such as the banning of certain guns for private ownership after the Hungerford massacre. It seems to be in the US this is not the case.
 
As a long term shooter (Shotgun and Rifle), the main difference between here and the States is the in the UK the law only allows for the use of sporting weapons, and in the case of rifles highly controlled use of were they can be used - ANY deviations from this or if you are deemed to be an unsuitable person to hold a licence your guns will be siezed and your licence revoked. As such you'll find that every shooter you find are level headed law abiding types (In my 15+ years of experience at leats). Because in the UK it's a privilage to hold a licence.
Prior to Hungerford and Dunblain the UK police would issued licences for assault rifles and pistols - Both of which especially assault rifles only have one use and have the tendancy to attract the "Weekend warriors" and we all have seen what these nutters do, not only here, but in Norway and the States. I still find it hard to believe lessons haven't been learn't about the types of weapon for sale (And the people that buy them) in other parts of the world.
Stu.
 
Nondizzyblonde said:
I think the difference is that in Britain we learn from mass shootings, such as the banning of certain guns for private ownership after the Hungerford massacre. It seems to be in the US this is not the case.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and with a lot less waffle than my post :thumbsup:
Stu.
 
the cueball said:
I do find the American mentality about guns pretty odd.....

I both work in and visit the USA at least 6 times a year, and last year finally decided to visit a public gun range...

basically after 1 minute of training from a drunk guy who was 'in charge' I was let loose with a 9mm and live ammo...

Here's my "Glock"

1A5B4EA9-EB8B-4A95-9C37-C95B9093CC4B-233-00000015891EC06A.jpg


At first it was quite scary, but after a few magazines it really does become really easy, and I can see how people can just pull the trigger without thinking things through....

The thing is though.... I had my rounds, gave the gun back and at no time thought about shooting people or using it for violence.... so as I say, the mentality is all wrong..... (IMO)

I ended up talking to a young guy at the range.... wow your Scotterlish as usual etc, and he couldn't believe we don't use guns over here.... I calmly explained I believe guns are for pussies and if we want to kill someone we'll do it by hand or a knife... up close and personal...

we talked for a bit more... but I don't think I got through to him.... until I put him on his backside in a choke that could kill him before he got his super gun out it's holster.... I think it was a decent demonstration for him.... thankfully I didn't get shot, and we went for a beer instead.... lol

anyway... guns don't kill people.... it's people (or wappppppers), guns just get the blame..... a bit like how 'speed' kills you... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Glasgow style. Good work my man. I hope you also drunk him under the table when enjoying said beer.
 
Bigdog, we have very different views and still manage to be respectful, thanks for that.

Set aside all the gun control and the good/bad arguments.

You don't seen liked the kind of person that would leave a handgun lying around the house, least of all loaded. We both know there are fuckwits that do and they shouldn't be allowed to own weapons.

My real issue is the idea of making them pretty. They're a tool for a purpose. Making then brightly coloured will make them attractive to kids.

I'd also put money on parents buying guns for their kids, especially after hearing some of the conversations in the store. And the cynic in me can't help but think that the wide range of very brightly coloured, very small handguns are illicitly designed with that in mind.

Nobody can argue that certain tobacco companies were marketing to kids with their cartoon characters, that got stopped. Why not stop brightly coloured handguns?
 
RubyBlueZ4MC said:
When I initially saw this thread I read "guys aren't toys" :lol:
Click to expand...


If you want us to be toys then toys we are! Now come on girls....

PLAY WITH US !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

PS - no jokes about shooting blanks allowed.
 
Mowflow said:
"But guns designed to be attractive to kids are sick"

They are not designed to be attractive to kids. They are designed to be attractive to simple minded American.



Just like to say that I'm not implying stupidity is a disease that only Americans can have. We have plenty of infected people here. We just don't let them buy guns.
Click to expand...

Thanks for insulting me Mowflow. Well done! I really appreciated that.

Thanks Mr. Truman. Folks can disagree and remain respectful. A lesson Mowflow seems to have missed. I was taught by my parents that I was to stay away from guns without adult supervision. I knew at a young age to not play with guns period. And so I didn't. I also knew the difference between my toy Lone Ranger gun and a real one. It was all down to parenting. The color or look of the gun had no bearing.

Most folks that own guns in America are not simple minded. I own guns because the 2nd amendment allows me to own one. The MAIN objective of the 2nd amendment was to give the folks a way of fighting back against a corrupt government. You see, I have an issue with the endless power that my government has given itself. Just look at the IRS scandal and the NSA issue. The US government IS abusing it's power. Targeting people they don't agree with. Our government IS monitoring and storing YOUR communications without your knowledge or permission. Do you like that. I want my government to fear me and those like me that own guns. The US government was hired by and works for "the people" not the other way round. You should try reading Orwell's 1984.

What we in America and England should do. Is start demanding respect from our children and discipline them if they misbehave. Instead of coddling them. Then telling them that it's not their fault that they broke into that home. Telling them it was the homeowners fault. Because the home owners didn't lock the window and besides it was an expensive home and those evil upper class home owners deserved it. That's the attitude we are instilling in our kids these days. That's why they are picking up guns and shooting people. The kids/young adults weren't doing such things in the time I grew up to the extent they do it now. The younger generation has a total lack of respect for them selves and those around them and an even healthier dose of I don't give a s**t about anything. That's the problem.
 
I don't really mind if the government wants to track my endless eBay purchases and z4 forum discussions. I honestly don't see how carrying arms will protect you against a corrupt government. Probably just means that if you become too much of a problem you will be found to have committed 'suicide' with your own gun .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom