A
Anonymous
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enuff_zed said:
Didn't mean to suggest a 'suck eggs' approach..just trying to give you the best chance for a splendid result!
Finally! I've booked it!
- Thread starter enuff_zed
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Didn't mean to suggest a 'suck eggs' approach..just trying to give you the best chance for a splendid result!
Pbondar said:
And taken as such, I assure you.
Just so happens I only recently filled it. Back in the Spring, after a quiet winter, your advice would indeed have been very relevant.
Having said that, back in the day I would get my 2.8i Capri tuned on bog standard fuel, then put in V-power or its equivalent, plus a dose of lead replacement + octane booster additive. Would go like a rocket.
The one time I tuned it up with the good stuff in, then had to fill it with 95, it ran like a bag of nails!
Well, I'm home after my morning trip to Anglia Tuning Centre. Went the short way, came home the long way. What fun!
I can heartily recommend Ben at ATC, friendly, knowledgeable, happy to let me watch and showed me everything he was doing.
The first run, pre-remap, gave 188bhp, either a good engine, or maybe an indication of his dyno accuracy, who knows. He did say my car was at an ideal mileage (24k) as it was nicely run it, but not yet started any significant wear.
The graphs below show exactly what I ended up with; slightly higher than forecast on bhp and a smidgeon lower on Nm (not that I could tell!)
NB. The remap torque figure at the bottom is slightly too high. He held it on the dyno brake slightly to build the boost, and the graph shows this peaked the torque slightly high. It should read closer to 362Nm.
The drive home was a revelation. Lots of traffic in places, so just cruising along, but I found myself a gear higher several times, using all the extra torque.
Then onto a decent stretch of road, but not one I would really have risked overtakes on before. Today I merely wondered if I should overtake and lo and behold, I had!
For my particular driving style this remap seems ideal. Bags of torque, in a very flat curve, right where I want it.
I did run it up a bit higher once or twice, to the point where the extra bhp started to take over from the torque, and yes, you could feel it; but I reckon, after a bit of experimentation, that I will be using the torque, changing up a little earlier (around 4500-5000) and making just as rapid progress.
My only question now is.....why didn't I do this sooner!
I can heartily recommend Ben at ATC, friendly, knowledgeable, happy to let me watch and showed me everything he was doing.
The first run, pre-remap, gave 188bhp, either a good engine, or maybe an indication of his dyno accuracy, who knows. He did say my car was at an ideal mileage (24k) as it was nicely run it, but not yet started any significant wear.
The graphs below show exactly what I ended up with; slightly higher than forecast on bhp and a smidgeon lower on Nm (not that I could tell!)
NB. The remap torque figure at the bottom is slightly too high. He held it on the dyno brake slightly to build the boost, and the graph shows this peaked the torque slightly high. It should read closer to 362Nm.
The drive home was a revelation. Lots of traffic in places, so just cruising along, but I found myself a gear higher several times, using all the extra torque.
Then onto a decent stretch of road, but not one I would really have risked overtakes on before. Today I merely wondered if I should overtake and lo and behold, I had!
For my particular driving style this remap seems ideal. Bags of torque, in a very flat curve, right where I want it.
I did run it up a bit higher once or twice, to the point where the extra bhp started to take over from the torque, and yes, you could feel it; but I reckon, after a bit of experimentation, that I will be using the torque, changing up a little earlier (around 4500-5000) and making just as rapid progress.
My only question now is.....why didn't I do this sooner!
Attachments
wowzers, an extra 90hp! and for a turbo engine, that is really a great flat torque curve. must be well happy with the results.
I said this on a pistonheads forum already, but i really don't see why anyone has a turbocharged car and doesn't get it remapped!
I said this on a pistonheads forum already, but i really don't see why anyone has a turbocharged car and doesn't get it remapped!
A
Anonymous
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Oh I do love all these graphs...congratulations...
It’s all very interesting....not sure if it’s the tuner’s art, the engine, pneumatic waste gate control vs electronic, carbon on the inlets etc..
Your engine just want to rev..your’s makes a steady climb to peak power at 6,400 rpm...mine 5,500
Your base HP curve has no dip in its rise on to peak torque, mine has a flattening point at 3,000 shows up more on the torque curve..
Similarly my re-map peak torque curve occurs earlier and is flatter..
Did he inhibit the redline ? Seems to not shut down till 500 rpm higher than the base map / mine?
Just utterly transforms the car doesn't it..is your's manual?
It’s all very interesting....not sure if it’s the tuner’s art, the engine, pneumatic waste gate control vs electronic, carbon on the inlets etc..
Your engine just want to rev..your’s makes a steady climb to peak power at 6,400 rpm...mine 5,500
Your base HP curve has no dip in its rise on to peak torque, mine has a flattening point at 3,000 shows up more on the torque curve..
Similarly my re-map peak torque curve occurs earlier and is flatter..
Did he inhibit the redline ? Seems to not shut down till 500 rpm higher than the base map / mine?
Just utterly transforms the car doesn't it..is your's manual?
Attachments
Firstly, [ref]Pbondar[/ref], I mislead you, due to a misunderstanding in my communication with Ben. He 'used' to work as a home installer for Celtic, but now works for himself and does not use their product. Stupidly I got distracted and forgot to ask him who's maps he does use now.
Yes, the map he installs removes the rev limiter, but no-one with any mechanical sympathy would go near it would they? I certainly won't.
Mine did show a very slight dip, but much higher up the rev range.
Can't imagine how yours must feel with that much extra torque. I'm more than happy with mine, especially the fact it is there right through the rev range.
Yes mine is a manual, although that torque curve would really suit an auto.
Main difference between yours and mine seems to be that yours hits high torque very early, then starts a slow tailing off, whereas mine doesn't go as high, but doesn't want to come back down.
Shame really that we cannot compare more closely, because I think if they were both manuals we may develop different styles to maximise their differing characteristics.
I wonder how much the extra 6 degrees C affected the comparison?
Anyway, it's all slightly irrelevant as I suspect my grin is very similar to yours.
Yes, the map he installs removes the rev limiter, but no-one with any mechanical sympathy would go near it would they? I certainly won't.
Mine did show a very slight dip, but much higher up the rev range.
Can't imagine how yours must feel with that much extra torque. I'm more than happy with mine, especially the fact it is there right through the rev range.
Yes mine is a manual, although that torque curve would really suit an auto.
Main difference between yours and mine seems to be that yours hits high torque very early, then starts a slow tailing off, whereas mine doesn't go as high, but doesn't want to come back down.
Shame really that we cannot compare more closely, because I think if they were both manuals we may develop different styles to maximise their differing characteristics.
I wonder how much the extra 6 degrees C affected the comparison?
Anyway, it's all slightly irrelevant as I suspect my grin is very similar to yours.
A
Anonymous
Guest
All noted, the 6c should be part of the correction factor along with ambient air pressure (ideally humidity too) so should be an apples for apples basis..certainly on the same dyno..each dyno varies so less of a guarantee..
I'll start building my database..my theory at the moment is that the later electronic waste gate control gives more power
I'll start building my database..my theory at the moment is that the later electronic waste gate control gives more power
Pbondar said:
So you need to start convincing more people to get it done, just to prove your theory.
If it is correct then, allowing for every car being slightly different, maybe we should expect to see two graph shapes for pneumatic or electronic waste gate control?
But again, so many factors to consider......................Ben did say mine was probably as close to ideal in terms of mileage/wear etc.
And humidity is recorded on my graphs.
I guess I may never know exactly what results my remap produced. No dyno so no graphs. Subjectively the difference was profound - night & day, even ... and like the OP here it was torque more than anything else that made the car so much more pleasing to drive.
Mine is an auto and one of my first observations was that the gear changes came at discernibly different rev levels. It stopped dropping a gear (or two) every time I touched the accelerator. There's a lot more power but it's subjectively nicer to drive even if I don't want to go particularly quickly. (Yet more often now... I do :evil: )
Mr Bondar's experiences with his Celtic map raised some doubts in my mind which may cost me a dyno session to fully exorcise but if I trust my own experience & judgement, it is at at the very least way quicker than it was before.
Mine is an auto and one of my first observations was that the gear changes came at discernibly different rev levels. It stopped dropping a gear (or two) every time I touched the accelerator. There's a lot more power but it's subjectively nicer to drive even if I don't want to go particularly quickly. (Yet more often now... I do :evil: )
Mr Bondar's experiences with his Celtic map raised some doubts in my mind which may cost me a dyno session to fully exorcise but if I trust my own experience & judgement, it is at at the very least way quicker than it was before.
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Anonymous
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enuff_zed said:Pbondar said:
So you need to start convincing more people to get it done, just to prove your theory.
If it is correct then, allowing for every car being slightly different, maybe we should expect to see two graph shapes for pneumatic or electronic waste gate control?
But again, so many factors to consider......................Ben did say mine was probably as close to ideal in terms of mileage/wear etc.
And humidity is recorded on my graphs.
Well I’m going for an inlet valve decode and a fresh check run next Tuesday..so will see if clean inlets make any differences..
With the exception of my weird Celtic tune the key point is that all the dyno’ day cars all show massive gains in bhp / torque..seems the tuners/cars trade off is slightly more mid range torque at the expense of absolute bhp but all those are nuances..
The effortless overtaking plus for those with the auto box a very happy marriage just transforms the car..
Pbondar said:enuff_zed said:Pbondar said:
So you need to start convincing more people to get it done, just to prove your theory.
If it is correct then, allowing for every car being slightly different, maybe we should expect to see two graph shapes for pneumatic or electronic waste gate control?
But again, so many factors to consider......................Ben did say mine was probably as close to ideal in terms of mileage/wear etc.
And humidity is recorded on my graphs.
Well I’m going for an inlet valve decode and a fresh check run next Tuesday..so will see if clean inlets make any differences..
With the exception of my weird Celtic tune the key point is that all the dyno’ day cars all show massive gains in bhp / torque..seems the tuners/cars trade off is slightly more mid range torque at the expense of absolute bhp but all those are nuances..
The effortless overtaking plus for those with the auto box a very happy marriage just transforms the car..
Maybe Carly could decode your inlet valves?
Rob
Smartbear said:Pbondar said:enuff_zed said:So you need to start convincing more people to get it done, just to prove your theory.
If it is correct then, allowing for every car being slightly different, maybe we should expect to see two graph shapes for pneumatic or electronic waste gate control?
But again, so many factors to consider......................Ben did say mine was probably as close to ideal in terms of mileage/wear etc.
And humidity is recorded on my graphs.
Well I’m going for an inlet valve decode and a fresh check run next Tuesday..so will see if clean inlets make any differences..
With the exception of my weird Celtic tune the key point is that all the dyno’ day cars all show massive gains in bhp / torque..seems the tuners/cars trade off is slightly more mid range torque at the expense of absolute bhp but all those are nuances..
The effortless overtaking plus for those with the auto box a very happy marriage just transforms the car..
Maybe Carly could decode your inlet valves?
Rob
Almost midnight and still so sharp you'll cut yourself.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Post re-map euphoria..enuff_zed said:Smartbear said:Pbondar said:Well I’m going for an inlet valve decode and a fresh check run next Tuesday..so will see if clean inlets make any differences..
With the exception of my weird Celtic tune the key point is that all the dyno’ day cars all show massive gains in bhp / torque..seems the tuners/cars trade off is slightly more mid range torque at the expense of absolute bhp but all those are nuances..
The effortless overtaking plus for those with the auto box a very happy marriage just transforms the car..
Maybe Carly could decode your inlet valves?
Rob
Almost midnight and still so sharp you'll cut yourself.
