F1

[original guvnor]

I can understand the clamour for change after a bad accident like this but I've been watching F1 for many years and I can't remember a car hitting a recovery vehicle before. If you ban them unless the safety car is out you'll have multiple safety cars every race and the problem with the safety car is that it penalises drivers who have driven well and developed an advantage over other drivers by being quick. The less it's used the better in my opinion. Racing is dangerous by its very nature. You cannot legislate against incidents like this. The driver has to take a share of the blame for this surely? He must have seen Sutil off the previous lap, he must have seen the yellow flags and he must have known conditions were worsening. Safety is pretty damn hot already - when you think we've had 24 guys racing finely honed machines capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds and 0-180 in about 8 or 9 seconds, for nigh on 20 years, without a fatality, that's pretty impressive. Especially when you compare F1 to other series such as Indy/NASCAR etc.

I always find it distasteful these days when something like this happens it always has to be someone's fault.

It goes without saying that I wish Jules a very speedy recovery and that he can resume his career in the future if he so chooses.

 

[Conquistador]

Doesn't seem to let me embed it onto the forum, but I've found the video, and for those who want to see, I've published it here on my site:

http://www.smellmyclutch.com/video-jules-bianchi-crash-japan/

Unfortunately it does look as bad as we all think but fingers crossed that Jules makes a full recovery.

 

[lux]

The safety car is always out in the BTCC, it bunches the cars up and makes for more exciting racing. I understand it penalises the faster guys at the front but that shouldn't be an excuse for not using it more.

 

[original guvnor]

I don't like seeing the Safety Car though Lux. If I pay a lot of money to go and watch a GP I don't want to see them tootling around like Miss Daisy for multiple laps.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

I can understand the clamour for change after a bad accident like this but I've been watching F1 for many years and I can't remember a car hitting a recovery vehicle before. If you ban them unless the safety car is out you'll have multiple safety cars every race and the problem with the safety car is that it penalises drivers who have driven well and developed an advantage over other drivers by being quick. The less it's used the better in my opinion. Racing is dangerous by its very nature. You cannot legislate against incidents like this. The driver has to take a share of the blame for this surely? He must have seen Sutil off the previous lap, he must have seen the yellow flags and he must have known conditions were worsening. Safety is pretty damn hot already - when you think we've had 24 guys racing finely honed machines capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds and 0-180 in about 8 or 9 seconds, for nigh on 20 years, without a fatality, that's pretty impressive. Especially when you compare F1 to other series such as Indy/NASCAR etc.

I always find it distasteful these days when something like this happens it always has to be someone's fault.

It goes without saying that I wish Jules a very speedy recovery and that he can resume his career in the future if he so chooses.

IIRC, Sutil was following Bianchi when he crashed, so the first opportunity Bianchi had to see Sutil's crash scene was when he hit it himself.

 

[Zed_Steve]

The safety car at the Singapore GP made things quite exciting actually

 

[woozzle]

Doesn't seem to let me embed it onto the forum, but I've found the video, and for those who want to see, I've published it here on my site:

http://www.smellmyclutch.com/video-jules-bianchi-crash-japan/

Unfortunately it does look as bad as we all think but fingers crossed that Jules makes a full recovery.

Marshal definitely waving a green flag. No wonder they didn't show it on national tv .

 

[original guvnor]

I can understand the clamour for change after a bad accident like this but I've been watching F1 for many years and I can't remember a car hitting a recovery vehicle before. If you ban them unless the safety car is out you'll have multiple safety cars every race and the problem with the safety car is that it penalises drivers who have driven well and developed an advantage over other drivers by being quick. The less it's used the better in my opinion. Racing is dangerous by its very nature. You cannot legislate against incidents like this. The driver has to take a share of the blame for this surely? He must have seen Sutil off the previous lap, he must have seen the yellow flags and he must have known conditions were worsening. Safety is pretty damn hot already - when you think we've had 24 guys racing finely honed machines capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds and 0-180 in about 8 or 9 seconds, for nigh on 20 years, without a fatality, that's pretty impressive. Especially when you compare F1 to other series such as Indy/NASCAR etc.

I always find it distasteful these days when something like this happens it always has to be someone's fault.

It goes without saying that I wish Jules a very speedy recovery and that he can resume his career in the future if he so chooses.

IIRC, Sutil was following Bianchi when he crashed, so the first opportunity Bianchi had to see Sutil's crash scene was when he hit it himself.

But my point is plenty of other drivers negotiated that bend before Bianchi did without falling off the track. Just because he's been badly hurt doesn't mean we have to assume it wasn't driver error and start knee-jerk rules changes. There's been enough of that in F1 this season already.

 

[original guvnor]

If you want to prevent this happening again surely the FIA can just insist all recovery vehicles are clad in impact absorbent material and are designed in such a way to prevent a car going underneath them?

 

[thepits]

....it always has to be someone's fault.

It goes without saying that I wish Jules a very speedy recovery and that he can resume his career in the future if he so chooses.

Sad though it may sound, there is no such thing as an accident, it is always some-ones fault.

In this case circumstances appear to have conspired to produce a very unfortunate outcome :thumbsdown:

The regulations in regard of flags, lights & SC for F1 [and other formulae] are very clear, and in F1 they have the extra warning via their dash - and of course team radio.

There should be no reason why Jules should not aware of the issue at this corner.

As I've posted before, Live Snatches happen all the time - BTCC included - without a SC.

"Motor Racing Is Dangerous" - it says so on the ticket/pass

 

[BMWZ4MC]

OG, I wasn't really disputing that driver error had a part to play, although it's hard to speculate why he left the circuit and the preceding and following drivers did not. Certainly crashing behind a safety car or under waved yellow flags suggests that a driver hasn't paid enough attention to the warnings (I've done it myself although I span off avoiding the guy in front who stopped dead in the middle of the track in response to a yellow flag). It's really bad luck that Bianchi hit the tractor - as you say, decades of such incidents not happening support the absence of a need for a safety car every time a stranded vehicle is recovered.

 

[Machine monkey]

If you want to prevent this happening again surely the FIA can just insist all recovery vehicles are clad in impact absorbent material and are designed in such a way to prevent a car going underneath them?

I am with you 100% on all your above points OG. More SC would ruin some of the racing. Yes some times it adds spice but if we where to see 2-3-4-5 SC situations each race we would all get bored. The safety in F1 is second to none and if they can make the recovery vehicles safer I am all for that.

As previously mentioned the closed cockpit argument will be raging. And if they can do it in a way that ruin the look or performance of the cars well why not. Alonso was really lucky in spar the other year!

If a marshal was waiving the wrong flag. If Jules did something wrong. Well guess what they are both human that's what we all do from time to time. I wish all the best and a full and speedy recovery to Jules.

 

[thepits]

crashing behind a safety car or under waved yellow flags suggests that a driver hasn't paid enough attention to the warnings (I've done it myself although I span off avoiding the guy in front who stopped dead in the middle of the track in response to a yellow flag)..

Typical driver excuse! [I've heard it all before] :roll:

It's really bad luck that Bianchi hit the tractor - as you say, decades of such incidents not happening support the absence of a need for a safety car every time a stranded vehicle is recovered

agreed, IMHO just a freak incidence, with unfortunately a grave outcome.




Keep Fighting Jules


.

 

[lux]

More SC would ruin some of the racing. Yes some times it adds spice but if we where to see 2-3-4-5 SC situations each race we would all get bored.

I disagree Mat, a SC for three or four laps, a few times a race is fine if it makes it safer for drivers and marshals. Also, races can be soooo boring if the field is spread out, so bunching the pack up can only be good. If the SC has to be deployed a few times they can add laps onto the race distance so we don't lose out on racing time.

Also a SC gives you time to get a cuppa and burger if your at the circuit :wink:

 

[thepits]

a SC for three or four laps, a few times a race is fine ... races can be soooo boring if the field is spread out, so bunching the pack up can only be good.

You've been watching too much NASCAR

"Debris on the track = full course yellow = SC" Yeh roight! :roll:

 

[omar]

Let's not forget that the Caterham (Ericsson I think) managed to spin off under the safety car on the second lap - accidents can always happen. From the speed Bianchi seems to have gone flying off the track it was either the mother of all aquaplaning or going far too fast through the double waved yellows (which ultimately are mainly there to protect the marshals - we're pretty lucky none of them were injured too). Also who really cares if there's a green flag waving... chances are it's to signify having passed the incident, and even if it is in error there's a big orange tractor next to him which is far more visible.

For me SCs might add a bit of interest now and again but someone's race strategy always gets ruined while other people get the jump on multiple cars just by virtue of being near the pit lane at the right time etc. 50 points for the last race is enough of a joke without turning the closest title race for ages into a lottery. All that said I'm sure we're going to see a great deal of caution from the race directors in the rest of the season and SCs any time a car needs to be moved.

Oh and Massa's lost a lot of respect in my book for his little outburst about screaming for five laps about it being too wet... pretty sure he and the rest of the field were all still on intermediate tyres.

 

[ben g]

Who said Bianchi even spotted the tractor?

Did you watch the race at all? If so, you would've seen even at low speeds, the onboard camera shows a huge amount of spray which basically blinded the driver from seeing anything.

 

[ben g]

Oh and don't take that as me wanting more safety cars and rules.

I loved seeing the drivers race in the rain. For 42 laps they were ok. It's just a freak accident.

But the whole green flag thing is a bit odd and will no doubt be investigated.

 

[Zed_Steve]

Let's not forget that the Caterham (Ericsson I think) managed to spin off under the safety car on the second lap - accidents can always happen. From the speed Bianchi seems to have gone flying off the track it was either the mother of all aquaplaning or going far too fast through the double waved yellows (which ultimately are mainly there to protect the marshals - we're pretty lucky none of them were injured too). Also who really cares if there's a green flag waving... chances are it's to signify having passed the incident, and even if it is in error there's a big orange tractor next to him which is far more visible.

For me SCs might add a bit of interest now and again but someone's race strategy always gets ruined while other people get the jump on multiple cars just by virtue of being near the pit lane at the right time etc. 50 points for the last race is enough of a joke without turning the closest title race for ages into a lottery. All that said I'm sure we're going to see a great deal of caution from the race directors in the rest of the season and SCs any time a car needs to be moved.

Oh and Massa's lost a lot of respect in my book for his little outburst about screaming for five laps about it being too wet... pretty sure he and the rest of the field were all still on intermediate tyres.

Just watched some of the race again, and Massa came in for a pit stop (lap 38) 6 laps before the safety car was deployed (lap 44) No mention of what tyres went on, but conditions were still ok at the time of his stop.

 

[CR55EDS]

While safety cars may spice a race up, my view is that if they are introduced, the potential for more accidents is even greater! Having the field racing into the first corner albeit initially one after the other at the first safety car line, will make things riskier.

That was a truly shocking contact with the tractor unit. Usually waved yellows or double yellows are sufficient to make drivers aware of the danger. However, once the car aquaplaned, it could have ended up anywhere. Maybe something could be done when it's a wet race only! It does seem very unfortunate for Marussia that it was their cars who have made contact with these tractor units.

Get well soon Jules.