Ex-Marlon E85 Update & Help Request

[wingnut]

If your wheels/ tyres are same back and front, it might be worth swapping front to rear.
In the past on Two occasions mine has suffered from tramlining and on doth occasions the simple swap of front to rear cured the problem.(keeping them running is same direction)
I would also agree that spacers tend to make it more susceptible to tramlining, I run 15mm front 20mm rear, does not cause tramlining but is more sensitive to road camber.
Good luck, hope you get it sorted without wasting cash on issues that may not in fact need resolving.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Which could then imply that the tyres had worn unevenly as a result?

OP, originally before you swapped anything (wheel or tyre) were you experiencing any issues?

I say this because I've remembered you're on a square set up. So I believe when the "old" tyres were put on the new alloys the positions have been changed. So you could have a front tyre on the rear alloy, vice versa. This could be causing the problems. As per the above, I'm not so sure the tyres have worn unevenly, just not been put back from the corner they were taken. It's important on the Zed to keep tyres on a particular corner, the swapping wheels thing to improve wear doesn't really apply to us.

I have the same setup that was on the car when I collected it from Marlon. This is staggered BMW Style 32 wheels, with 225/40/18's on the front and 255/35/18's on the rear. It didn't tramline initially, this issue first appeared when I was on a long four day road trip the week after I bought the car and has progressively got worse.

 

[kis]

My bad... for some reason I thought you were running a square 8J setup...

 

[n1cecupoftea]

My bad... for some reason I thought you were running a square 8J setup...

No worries, I don't think I stated my wheel setup previously.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

I called Kwik-Fit a few minutes ago to ask a couple of questions about the 1st four wheel alignment.

• Did they add the recommended ballast weight? The answer was no because the machine didn't tell them to do so.

• Did they reset the steering angle sensor? The answer was no because the front adjustments were minor

According to NewTIS they should of aded ballast weight 2 x 68 kg on front seats and 1 x 14 kg in luggage compartment. I will make sure they do this on the 2nd attempt but it is odd that the machine didn't specify this. Or maybe they are full of s**t.

I will also ask them to reset the steering angle sensor on the 2nd attempt.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Sorry for spam.

I emailed Pro-Align, who are the UK distributor for Hunter systems, regarding the ballast weight and the steering angle sensor, and their response is below. This may be helpful to others, not sure.

Thank you for your enquiry, there is a ride height that needs to be checked for your car (Z4) this is measured and then if out of the specified range it should be weighted or repaired, if the ride height is okay then no weight needs to be added.

Weight is added to the front seat and boot only .

Steering angle sensor should be reset, there could be the chance that only a tiny adjustment to the front toe was required and this fell within the 2 deg tolerance on the steering angle sensor and it wasn't required.

I am not sure on the weight ballast now. Your thoughts please?

 

[Tinker15]

I had my E89 done here http://www.atec-align.co.uk/what-to-expect-with-a-four-wheel-alignment/

As you will see from the page it states “ Weight a car for measurement, where specified by the manufacturer.” He did weight mine so I guess it is required on our cars.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

I had my E89 done here http://www.atec-align.co.uk/what-to-expect-with-a-four-wheel-alignment/

As you will see from the page it states “ Weight a car for measurement, where specified by the manufacturer.” He did weight mine so I guess it is required on our cars.

Thanks very much Tinker. That is very useful, I will make sure they add the ballast weight.

 

[True-Blue]

Have the shock absorbers ever been replaced and what mileage is the car on?

My Current E85 is on Eibach lowering springs, Bilstein B8’s and Z4M style 224 wheels, so it’s low with a wide track and it’s very planted. It needs a very ‘rutted’ road to do anything other than maintain forward momentum with absolutely minimal steering input. It also brakes sharply in a straight line.

The chap who bought my previous E86 is on the same suspension set up and wheels! That car doesn’t tramline now either. It did when I sold it to him, which I was completely open about and was one of the things I had planned to address if I’d kept it... but it’s now sorted.

Not saying it’s the case for your car, but a knackered shock absorber with no rebound is going to drastically affect road manners. Can’t remember how old your car it, but it’s at least 10 yrs old I’d have thought?

Just a thought.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Have the shock absorbers ever been replaced and what mileage is the car on?

My Current E85 is on Eibach lowering springs, Bilstein B8’s and Z4M style 224 wheels, so it’s low with a wide track and it’s very planted. It needs a very ‘rutted’ road to do anything other than maintain forward momentum with absolutely minimal steering input. It also brakes sharply in a straight line.

The chap who bought my previous E86 is on the same suspension set up and wheels! That car doesn’t tramline now either. It did when I sold it to him, which I was completely open about and was one of the things I had planned to address if I’d kept it... but it’s now sorted.

Not saying it’s the case for your car, but a knackered shock absorber with no rebound is going to drastically affect road manners. Can’t remember how old your car it, but it’s at least 10 yrs old I’d have thought?

Just a thought.

Thanks for the thought. It is 11 years old and has done 87k miles. I did ask my local BMW specialist about a suspension refresh. He checked out the entire suspension for me and said it wasn't needed. On a road that is smooth or mildly bumpy the car feels great, even over undulations and crests etc. But I do realise shocks don't last forever.

 

[skelters]

Might be worth going through some of the threads and many, many, many polls that Marlon posted to see if there's any suspension changes.

You could of course just PM him unless he's above all this now with his Volkswagen. :rofl:

 

[Mr Tidy]

I have compared the three cars and any changes or tweaks made to the Z4 on the same stretch of road near me, which is particularly bumpy and rutted. I could comfortably drive the Clio and MR2 with one relaxed hand on the wheel. In the Z4 I need two clenched hands on the wheel on the same piece of road. I realise I have to accept some tramlining but I think I can improve it a bit.

That's interesting. What I forgot to mention was that my Z4 and 1 Series both tramlined most on roads with deep "ruts" from heavy HGV use, or on joints in the road surface that were almost parallel to the direction of travel - like on the concrete section of the M25.

You're right about the sound of the N52 as well - a previous owner of mine had a custom cat-back system fitted and it's great.

 

[Marlon]

Might be worth going through some of the threads and many, many, many polls that Marlon posted to see if there's any suspension changes.

You could of course just PM him unless he's above all this now with his Volkswagen. :rofl:

No suspension changes during my ownership - rear springs replaced by previous owner
(p.s. my 997 gen1 was the last model built and owned entirely by Porsche :wink: )

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Might be worth going through some of the threads and many, many, many polls that Marlon posted to see if there's any suspension changes.

You could of course just PM him unless he's above all this now with his Volkswagen. :rofl:

Marlon beat me to it, thank you Sir.

As the BMW specialist says the suspension is fine I am inclined to believe him. A suspension refresh would be a good invoice for him.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Might be worth going through some of the threads and many, many, many polls that Marlon posted to see if there's any suspension changes.

You could of course just PM him unless he's above all this now with his Volkswagen. :rofl:

No suspension changes during my ownership - rear springs replaced by previous owner
(p.s. my 997 gen1 was the last model built and owned entirely by Porsche :wink: )

The last proper Porsche

If I remember correctly Porsche tried to buy VW/Audi before VW/Audi bought Porsche. I may have imagined that though, my memory is terrible

 

[skelters]

Aye it's still a beetle!

:rofl:

 

[MACK]

Has your car got wheel spacers fitted? I put them on my si and it was definitely more twitchy afterwards, if they are fitted take them off & try the car.
Rob

I agree with Rob. With spacers fitted (F15 R20) on standard wheels mine was noticably worse to drive. Shame as they do look better. The tramlining was also amplified. Google scrub radius for an explanation of the root cause on the front and extending the suspension lever point on both the front and particularly the rear doesn't help either as it reduces the effectiveness of the springs/shocks.

 

[Ewazix]

When I got my car ten years ago it had epic and dangerous tramlining on it's original worn runflats, a change to Falkens and a 4 wheel alignment cured it. A few years later I swapped to staggered 18's with Goodyear Eagles and tramlining was back. I then spent 12 months going through new rear springs, lots of bushes including lollypops and anti-roll bars, track rod ends etc which got rid of most of it. Finally got it sorted with a competent 4 wheel alignment by someone who understood that it's no use using factory settings on a car which has been changed from it's factory, wheels, tyres, springs and bushes. It now runs true with no wiggle even on inside lane canyons or greasy white lines.

Having done a LOT of reading during all this I came to the conclusion that 50% of the issue is tyre construction and tread pattern. A piece I found and posted a while ago explained that the stiffer the tyre and more 'square' the edge profile the more likely it is to sit in ruts and lines and not climb out, which makes sense. Supported by my experience with Falkens, which were quite forgiving and have a rounded edge profile and were fine, and Eagles that are stiffer and square edged. So it's worth considering the edge profile when choosing tyres and getting a really competent 4 wheel alignment.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

Has your car got wheel spacers fitted? I put them on my si and it was definitely more twitchy afterwards, if they are fitted take them off & try the car.
Rob

I agree with Rob. With spacers fitted (F15 R20) on standard wheels mine was noticably worse to drive. Shame as they do look better. The tramlining was also amplified. Google scrub radius for an explanation of the root cause on the front and extending the suspension lever point on both the front and particularly the rear doesn't help either as it reduces the effectiveness of the springs/shocks.

Thanks Mack; testing without spacers is on my list.

 

[n1cecupoftea]

When I got my car ten years ago it had epic and dangerous tramlining on it's original worn runflats, a change to Falkens and a 4 wheel alignment cured it. A few years later I swapped to staggered 18's with Goodyear Eagles and tramlining was back. I then spent 12 months going through new rear springs, lots of bushes including lollypops and anti-roll bars, track rod ends etc which got rid of most of it. Finally got it sorted with a competent 4 wheel alignment by someone who understood that it's no use using factory settings on a car which has been changed from it's factory, wheels, tyres, springs and bushes. It now runs true with no wiggle even on inside lane canyons or greasy white lines.

Having done a LOT of reading during all this I came to the conclusion that 50% of the issue is tyre construction and tread pattern. A piece I found and posted a while ago explained that the stiffer the tyre and more 'square' the edge profile the more likely it is to sit in ruts and lines and not climb out, which makes sense. Supported by my experience with Falkens, which were quite forgiving and have a rounded edge profile and were fine, and Eagles that are stiffer and square edged. So it's worth considering the edge profile when choosing tyres and getting a really competent 4 wheel alignment.

Thanks for your detailed feedback, this is much appreciated. The second alignment is being done tomorrow morning and I will make sure they weight the car correctly and reset the steering angle sensor. If that doesn't improve it, I will try without spacers and if that doesn't work my first expenditure will be on new front tyres for sure. Thanks again.