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Well I made it to the end. To get rid of any signs of tramlining simply buy an Mx5. :wink:
I used to notice my Zed tramlining when I first bought it. I would plant my right foot on either the right or middle pedal and it would head for the ditch or the car coming the other way accordingly.
After I ditched the original Conties and adjusted my driving a little I never really noticed it again.
I used to notice my Zed tramlining when I first bought it. I would plant my right foot on either the right or middle pedal and it would head for the ditch or the car coming the other way accordingly.
After I ditched the original Conties and adjusted my driving a little I never really noticed it again.
n1cecupoftea said:Marlon said:Good to hear from you - the tramling is not something I ever noticed though, which is very odd :?
Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction
It will get sorted and doesn't ruin the car; on smoother or mildly bumpy tarmac it is superb and was clearly cared for.
It was fine when I picked it up from you so I wasn't trying to suggest you were aware of the issue. I wonder if I have hit a particularly deep pot hole awkwardly/quickly and it damaged something or put the alignment out. I think I will get the alignment re-checked and see if they can get the steering wheel bang on straight. Does anyone know if the steering angle sensor should be reset when this is done? Or is that only required when a fault code is cleared?
Had my steering wheel set to centre after a ham fisted tracking adjustment & no resetting was nessessary
Rob
Not what you want to hear but I suspect it's the tyres, although I don't mean specifically the good years. I had exactly the same with some Michelin ps3. The tyres had over 5mm of tread left but I'd already replaced and double checked everything else that could cause this. So I bit the bullet and replaced the front tyres with Goodyear f1. Once I'd done this the tramlining virtually disappeared.
As a general rule tramlining does seem to be a tyre issue in the vast majority of cases
As a general rule tramlining does seem to be a tyre issue in the vast majority of cases
Attleborough, Norfolk
Get the tyres checked as the tread might be low as previously posted.
As it's the red Z from Marlon there'll be very little wrong with the car I'd suspect.
Bushes checked and replaced with poly bushes then an alignment.
Also get a code reader plugged in to check for any error codes it's throwing up.
As it's the red Z from Marlon there'll be very little wrong with the car I'd suspect.
Bushes checked and replaced with poly bushes then an alignment.
Also get a code reader plugged in to check for any error codes it's throwing up.
n1cecupoftea said:
I wouldn't necessarily move from Goodyears. If its the tyres, its more a case of the current set have worn unevenly. A new set of any brand should correct this. Just double check everything is fine bushes/alignment wise as this could have caused the wear issue in the first place.
North West Surrey
My current Z4 tramlines quite a lot, but I've learned to live with it for now.
If it still happens after I've worn my run-flats out and got proper tyres on it I'll investigate further.
Strangely my 1 Series used to start to do it sometimes when the tyres were down to around 4mm, especially if the outer shoulders had worn more than the rest of the tread and even more so if the pressures had dropped a bit. But new tyres always cured it.
I hope you find a solution as the 3.0Si has a great engine.
If it still happens after I've worn my run-flats out and got proper tyres on it I'll investigate further.
Strangely my 1 Series used to start to do it sometimes when the tyres were down to around 4mm, especially if the outer shoulders had worn more than the rest of the tread and even more so if the pressures had dropped a bit. But new tyres always cured it.
I hope you find a solution as the 3.0Si has a great engine.
That camber is generally more desirable than the "stock 2.5" as it's more like the Z4 M spec (which works on the non M's as well).
Most people want less understeer, which is inherently built into the factory setup. This is particularly apparent on non Z4 M models with so much more rear camber than front.
Front Camber
It’s reasonable to aim for maximum front camber (by pushing the pins all the way in). It will vary from car to car but this usually ends up with similar front camber in the region of 1.5 degrees plus or minus a quarter. You should then try balance the camber left and right back to whatever the lowest common denominator. For example if one goes to 1.5 and the other only goes to 1.3 get both at 1.3.
Front Toe
It's not generally advisable to run toe out on either end on the road as it's a bit too lively and not nice on the motorway with more potential for less straight line stability.
The front can be run at parallel or close to zero without any major adverse effects. It's why I often commented to aim for 0.02-0.05 on both sides.
Rear Camber
Rear camber should be in the region of 1.5 degrees plus or minus a quarter. You should then try balance the camber left and right back to whatever the lowest common denominator. For example if one goes to 1.5 and the other only goes to 1.3 get both at 1.3. You may find the stock adjustment doesn't go that low if the bushes are worn so just take the same approach as the front but aim for minimum rather than maximum camber.
If you’ve made adjustments to the front and rear camber and they end up with similar values at the front and back, keep in mind that it’s better having more camber at the front. So a setup like 1.4 front and 1.3 rear.
Rear Toe
Rear toe is the final factor then and the closer you run it to zero the more lively the rear end will be. Usual suggestion is to run a bit more than front but less than factory if you want a sharper car. With all other parameters set this is the one you could play with to add or remove oversteer to taste. I found it was not overtly lively running low numbers like 0.04-0.06. Again balance the left and right back to the lowest common denominator.
If you aren't aware the measurements are shown in minutes and seconds versus degrees. For example 2o 24 is 2.4 degrees. There's 60 seconds in each minute so 24/60 is 0.4 degrees. The numbers I mention above are in degrees so you're aiming for rear camber that reads something like 1o 15.
Full source here - it's a long post so have a flick through for what's relevant to you!
Most people want less understeer, which is inherently built into the factory setup. This is particularly apparent on non Z4 M models with so much more rear camber than front.
Front Camber
It’s reasonable to aim for maximum front camber (by pushing the pins all the way in). It will vary from car to car but this usually ends up with similar front camber in the region of 1.5 degrees plus or minus a quarter. You should then try balance the camber left and right back to whatever the lowest common denominator. For example if one goes to 1.5 and the other only goes to 1.3 get both at 1.3.
Front Toe
It's not generally advisable to run toe out on either end on the road as it's a bit too lively and not nice on the motorway with more potential for less straight line stability.
The front can be run at parallel or close to zero without any major adverse effects. It's why I often commented to aim for 0.02-0.05 on both sides.
Rear Camber
Rear camber should be in the region of 1.5 degrees plus or minus a quarter. You should then try balance the camber left and right back to whatever the lowest common denominator. For example if one goes to 1.5 and the other only goes to 1.3 get both at 1.3. You may find the stock adjustment doesn't go that low if the bushes are worn so just take the same approach as the front but aim for minimum rather than maximum camber.
If you’ve made adjustments to the front and rear camber and they end up with similar values at the front and back, keep in mind that it’s better having more camber at the front. So a setup like 1.4 front and 1.3 rear.
Rear Toe
Rear toe is the final factor then and the closer you run it to zero the more lively the rear end will be. Usual suggestion is to run a bit more than front but less than factory if you want a sharper car. With all other parameters set this is the one you could play with to add or remove oversteer to taste. I found it was not overtly lively running low numbers like 0.04-0.06. Again balance the left and right back to the lowest common denominator.
If you aren't aware the measurements are shown in minutes and seconds versus degrees. For example 2o 24 is 2.4 degrees. There's 60 seconds in each minute so 24/60 is 0.4 degrees. The numbers I mention above are in degrees so you're aiming for rear camber that reads something like 1o 15.
Full source here - it's a long post so have a flick through for what's relevant to you!
n1cecupoftea said:
Yeah, sound rationale, it does sound like it could be improved.
When you mention a range of tyre pressures, how low have you gone? Many people find a sweet spot with non-runflats that is a fair bit lower than the recommendations in the door jam. I think I ended up at around 31-32psi on 18s on my si; some people go as low as 28-29psi.
If your geo and suspension are both fine (as above, -1.4deg rear is ok and might even be an improvement over stock) then I’d also suspect tyres. As the tread blocks wear down they’ll transmit more small turning forces from the road. The cold weather may be contributing too, as sidewall stiffness is a huge factor (hence runflats being so much worse!).
In my experience camber can make a huge impact on tram-lining - it might be worth going back to 'stock' but first check the stupidly obvious - are both tyre pressures the same? The tyre sensors are not fool proof and it is possible (especially on runflats) to have a tyre going flat which accentuates the tram-lining with no indication in the car and from a quick look around (ask me how I know!).
kis said:
Yep but that's half my point in a way - they couldn't get to stock or it can not be returned to stock? Change the people working on it or look for bent/worn components but I'd look at tyre pressures as well - I've had it happen with one tyre losing pressure but at least it was a cheap fix.
Crazy Harry said:
It’s quite a common issue on the rear. A little unexpected, given you’d think the natural “sag” in the rear axle due to wear etc would increase -ve camber.
Perhaps a specialist garage might know a trick of the trade or two, but the OP could well be looking at a lot of additional labour to work all the various tolerances in the rear suspension enough to get it back within spec - “spec” being one of the first things that people change when they’re trying to sort out BMW’s overly safe rear geo and improve driving enjoyment (and not something that will help with tramlining at the front).