RJS-Z4 said:
To quote an old mate of mine who worked as a depot manager for ATS for near on 30 years 'I wouldn't even put them on a wheel barrow'.
Evergreen tyres
- Thread starter saskia
- Start date
To quote an old mate of mine who worked as a depot manager for ATS for near on 30 years 'I wouldn't even put them on a wheel barrow'.
There's a lot of reading material available on tyres, but it's really not that simple. Budget tyres are budget for a reason. There's a reason they cost less, it's the same reason they don't work as well, they're produced in a cheaper manner. Think of the R&D that goes into a conti tyre, this is probably 100x greater than the amount that goes into a proper "linglong" budget tyre or similar.
The amount of testing that's done in different conditions, the tweaks to the compound to get the best all around performance etc, all of these things will be skipped on a budget. Does it grip in the dry? yes? Does it meet our minimum wet requirements for the speed rating? Yes. That'll do, get it on the shelf.
The exception to this is mid-range tyres, whereby a decent amount of testing is carried out (still not as much as the big boys, but enough), these can then result in a good tyre. But to put it nicely, this is almost more luck than judgement, which is why some mid range are really recommended, and some people say to stay away from.
Look at the yokohama parada, they're a SUPERB dry tyre for a light hot hatch, but don't have the wet capability. Mid range tyres generally do one thing well or the other, they'll have a single outstanding characteristic, but be just below par on the other bits. Occasionally, one comes along that does everything pretty damn well, and it gets very popular, but as I said, often more luck that judgement.
Regardless, stay away from budgets on a car like the zed, and research your mid range tyres well before choosing one.
The amount of testing that's done in different conditions, the tweaks to the compound to get the best all around performance etc, all of these things will be skipped on a budget. Does it grip in the dry? yes? Does it meet our minimum wet requirements for the speed rating? Yes. That'll do, get it on the shelf.
The exception to this is mid-range tyres, whereby a decent amount of testing is carried out (still not as much as the big boys, but enough), these can then result in a good tyre. But to put it nicely, this is almost more luck than judgement, which is why some mid range are really recommended, and some people say to stay away from.
Look at the yokohama parada, they're a SUPERB dry tyre for a light hot hatch, but don't have the wet capability. Mid range tyres generally do one thing well or the other, they'll have a single outstanding characteristic, but be just below par on the other bits. Occasionally, one comes along that does everything pretty damn well, and it gets very popular, but as I said, often more luck that judgement.
Regardless, stay away from budgets on a car like the zed, and research your mid range tyres well before choosing one.
exdos said:
....... cos aggressive girls are cool ...........
teamemmenracing said:Excellent read ....... really brightened up my day.
I generally dont get involved in tyre discussion because they quite often errrrrrr take off ......
Took off like a rocket didn't it. Sorry. Although. This is calm compared to chatting on a political forum. Which can get real nasty very quickly.
exdos said:
Not aggression, just that there are 4 pages of criticism, against some poor guy who's trying out a brand of tyre that nobody's heard of on the recommendation of a tyre fitter, on which there is no real factual data on how good or bad this tyre is
we tend to like the tyre we've just fitted to our p&j and like to state that they are the best that we have ever fitted as some sort of validation that we had made the right choice and then when somebody doesn't agree with our choice, we insult them.
sars said:
I've picked up a car with evergreen tyres on before, I took it for a quick road test to make sure everything was OK and managed a four wheel slide at 40mph entirely by accident. Sure it was wet out (not raining) but I know that corner well, and I couldn't believe the lack of grip.
exdos said:
I had links in two prior posts in this thread to tyre tests. That's what I used to help me come to the decision to buy the tyres I bought in 2010 and again this year. But then some (one actually) even has an issue with a blind tyre test. I would agree that any tyre test where the test driver has knowledge of what tyre he/she is testing in a given session would be highly suspect.
Here is the link to the 2012 test. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/monsters-of-grip-nine-summer-performance-tires-tested-comparison-test
Just to add a bit about Operating Temperatures .....
I just spent some time digging aboot and discovered that the optimum sweet spot operating temp for the michelin pilot sport top end tyres is between 71 degs C and 104 degs C ......
which is easily attained on a track day, but will almost never be seen on the road.
On the track, pressures are altered up and down to maintain around 80 degs C plus.
(which makes sense to me as my tyre warmers are set at 80 degs C)
Using these tyres on the road, which loads of folk do, means the tyres will never reach operating temp and will therefore never perform as designed ..... or in other words, a total waste of cash .....
so when choosing tyres - price does not mean best - look for tyres that suit your needs ......
am I impressing the girls yet ????????
I just spent some time digging aboot and discovered that the optimum sweet spot operating temp for the michelin pilot sport top end tyres is between 71 degs C and 104 degs C ......
which is easily attained on a track day, but will almost never be seen on the road.
On the track, pressures are altered up and down to maintain around 80 degs C plus.
(which makes sense to me as my tyre warmers are set at 80 degs C)
Using these tyres on the road, which loads of folk do, means the tyres will never reach operating temp and will therefore never perform as designed ..... or in other words, a total waste of cash .....
so when choosing tyres - price does not mean best - look for tyres that suit your needs ......
am I impressing the girls yet ????????
teamemmenracing said:
H£ll yeah..
teamemmenracing said:Just to add a bit about Operating Temperatures .....
I just spent some time digging aboot and discovered that the optimum sweet spot operating temp for the michelin pilot sport top end tyres is between 71 degs C and 104 degs C ......
which is easily attained on a track day, but will almost never be seen on the road.
On the track, pressures are altered up and down to maintain around 80 degs C plus.
(which makes sense to me as my tyre warmers are set at 80 degs C)
Using these tyres on the road, which loads of folk do, means the tyres will never reach operating temp and will therefore never perform as designed ..... or in other words, a total waste of cash .....
so when choosing tyres - price does not mean best - look for tyres that suit your needs ......
am I impressing the girls yet ????????
Raising the question of what tyres reach optimum temps on the road?
http://www.primewelltires.com/PZ900
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Primewell/PZ900.htm
I have recently fitted a set of these to my Z4M and so far have been quite impressed.
My car is a daily driver so I wasn't really wanting to waste 1k worth of rubber running about on motorways.
I'm sure when pushed these won't perform anywhere near as well as high end brands but I think at £350 a set they are amazing value.
I'll let you all know if I change my mind once the winter kick in
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Primewell/PZ900.htm
I have recently fitted a set of these to my Z4M and so far have been quite impressed.
My car is a daily driver so I wasn't really wanting to waste 1k worth of rubber running about on motorways.
I'm sure when pushed these won't perform anywhere near as well as high end brands but I think at £350 a set they are amazing value.
I'll let you all know if I change my mind once the winter kick in
teamemmenracing said:Just to add a bit about Operating Temperatures .....
I just spent some time digging aboot and discovered that the optimum sweet spot operating temp for the michelin pilot sport top end tyres is between 71 degs C and 104 degs C ......
which is easily attained on a track day, but will almost never be seen on the road.
On the track, pressures are altered up and down to maintain around 80 degs C plus.
(which makes sense to me as my tyre warmers are set at 80 degs C)
Using these tyres on the road, which loads of folk do, means the tyres will never reach operating temp and will therefore never perform as designed ..... or in other words, a total waste of cash .....
so when choosing tyres - price does not mean best - look for tyres that suit your needs ......
am I impressing the girls yet ????????
I'm always impressed that you can write
last month I got a nail in my rear passenger side Pirelli P Zero. had 4 fitted at the same time and the back two where almost bald after less than 12 months. any how as they where so bald on the back i had to get 2 new back tires fitted at short notice and ended up getting two Nankang NS2s for £200 fitted. so technically im running budget tyres on a 240bhp rwd car! first impression are they yes they are not as good and the traction control light is almost always on even in the dry. but my car is my daily driver and with saving for a house priorities are with saving for this. however i drive my car enthusiastically almost ever day and dont feel like im going to die with every trip!
sars said:I'm always impressed that you can write
My day is complete .....
mad4slalom
Senior member
a balanced approach I find usually works best, pirellis are say 50% dearer, but not maybe 50% better, an evergreen is unheard of , which tells me it probably isnt much cop, doesnt mean it will kill you but I dont see an evergreen bridge at donnington or any other tracks, I dont see lewis and the other racers using them, so would perhaps be prudent to avoid them on a performance car, especially just on the front ,not good mixing tyres anyway but even worn good ones on the back are going to want to push less grippy ones on the front, straight on at a sharp bend. there are loads of posts on lesser priced tyres than the pirellis on here that reasure us that they are up to the task, good year eagles , falken 254, the oem contisport are people say not very good , but I drive sportingly and have found them fine in all conditions, middle of the road to higher end ,recognised brands and you wont go far wrong. Unknown, unheard of un pronounceable brands are probably not the best choice you will ever make. in my line of business i find there are plenty of monkeys masquerading as piano removers because they have bought one piano trolley, cheapest, is very rarely ever best
Liverpool
Part of the problem is that people don't realise what they're currently running is relatively useless until they take a chance and try something new.mad4slalom said:a balanced approach I find usually works best, pirellis are say 50% dearer, but not maybe 50% better, an evergreen is unheard of , which tells me it probably isnt much cop, doesnt mean it will kill you but I dont see an evergreen bridge at donnington or any other tracks, I dont see lewis and the other racers using them, so would perhaps be prudent to avoid them on a performance car, especially just on the front ,not good mixing tyres anyway but even worn good ones on the back are going to want to push less grippy ones on the front, straight on at a sharp bend. there are loads of posts on lesser priced tyres than the pirellis on here that reasure us that they are up to the task, good year eagles , falken 254, the oem contisport are people say not very good , but I drive sportingly and have found them fine in all conditions, middle of the road to higher end ,recognised brands and you wont go far wrong. Unknown, unheard of un pronounceable brands are probably not the best choice you will ever make. in my line of business i find there are plenty of monkeys masquerading as piano removers because they have bought one piano trolley, cheapest, is very rarely ever best
I too thought the OE SportContact M3 was fine, until I tried the PSS (which were about £50/25% a corner more expensive). But I've found they last twice as long, give better/more precise steering feel and turn in, and grip much better, so are well worth the 25% premium.
It's not the Continental brand that we've been rubbishing, as the new Continental SC5 seems to be as good as the PSS, but the OE Conti SC M3 (which is basically a SportContact 1/2).
Never tried Falkens, Nangkangs or Kumhos - but don't want to risk spending even £400 (if they're that cheap) in case they're a step down.
The thing is...lets say I am a tyre boffin (which I'm not) and i set up on my own with a revolutionary manufacturing process which makes my tyres the best in the business. With diddly squat in marketing budget, PR etc. I will remain an unknown, unheard of manufacturer, making, in the words of some on here, shite tyres. It doesn't mean they are, it just means that the world hasn't found out how great they are yet. They could be miles better than the established Michelins/Goodyears and all the others who have massive budgets to plaster race tracks with their adverts. I guess what I am saying is don't be a sheep - try things out yourself and make your own judgements. If you like something it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks provided it suits your needs.
On the contrary, I'd make a damn fine one because I've got a mind of my own