Epic brake upgrade fail

[BeemerGuy]

Hi everybody,

A longish post, hoping for a bit of advice...

Epic fail strikes me again....my ideas are far beyond my abilities but I keep having a go....

OK so I bought a stack of upgraded front brake parts...new bosh 330 disks, bosh 330 callipers, hella pagid pads, 330 splash guards, brake lube, blue threadlock, brake cleaner, trolly jack, axle stands, torque wrench, socket set and a smaller torx set.

This all to replace the stock 300mm disk, having fitted a Racechip GTS box...and thinking I might need the extra stopping power. I decided to opt for the app controlled chip because I'm so impetuous and the celric tuning agent garage never responded after a few weeks pre lockdown, and the racechip was doing £100 discount, so made in cheaper than Celtic's remap....I fitted it the night before, and in my limited run to the shops, with a quick nip into the motorway, was fairly pleased.

....Anyway never having attempted to change pads let alone the entire brake set up, and fitting bigger disks, I was sort of prepared for a few hitches....

So I jacked up one side with the trolley jack and a couple of longer pieces of wood underneath the sill to spread the forces, and was then able to place the axle stand; then repeated for the other side., clearly over optimistically thinking I was going to do both sides...

Popped the bonnet and undid the brake fluid reservoir, (why I don't know), took off the drivers wheel, having turned it for best access. Then managed to remove the wheel, the pad clip, the calliper, and then its carrier, the disk, and then the guard.

To remove the calliper i hade to undo the brake pipe by undoing it a little and twisting the calliper around and around until it was off....I hadn't really anticipated that the coupling on the brake pipe wouldn't swivel. Anyway i had a bucket so when it was twisted off it started to drain into it...i sort of thought niavely it might stop after a minute but it just trickled on and on.....hmmm not ideal.

As I removed the 4th bolt from the disk guard it came off. I gave it a spay clean, and then attempted to bolt on the new guard. Unfortunately the last bolt that came didn't seem to tighten properly so I tried puttubg on some blue threadlock and just pushed it in. It seemed that the thread was OK on the bolt so I assumed the female thread was dodgy...wasn't really sure what to do about that one...it was going to be loose with the new guard, and could catch the disk....its a problem.

Decided to press on, so I bolted on the new disk and attempted to fit the carrier back on. Having footered around for 20 mins tring to get the carrier bolts seated with no luck I concluded that the carriers were too small for the 330 disks....could that be the case, or was it my inexperience ?? I just couldn't seem to make it fit....is there a bigger carrier that will fit?

Feeling that I was now screwed, I started backing off the job, and reverting to original....everything went back on reasonably well, certainly the carrier seemed to fit and i was able to make it fit much more easily...also I think i got a the last bolt on the guard half tight, so that was a sort of limited win.

Then found the calliper reinstatement a bit fiddly, but got it one, but then had to redo it again, this time with the re-twisted on brake pipe fitted....i would be better if thee connector coupling turned independently of the pipe!

Once is was on i tried pathetically to get the bakes working....hard when I had lost so much brake fluid, and even harder as I had none to top it up with...pumped the brakes until it was squirting out the bleed valve (by undoing it). But I couldn't get it to firm up...think because the level was below minimum. Did as much as I could, cut my losses, put the wheel back on, lowered and cleaned up.

Basically 4+ hours of messing to be left with a car I can't drive...not ideal, especially as the neighbours were asking what I was up to, what was wrong etc....basically just an out of his depth fool braking the brakes.

So I've now ordered some dot 4 brake fluid, and I'm thinking I need some copper grease for the hub....the pressing issues are now the replacement bolt problem, and the carrier size cluster...

Any advice on my crap approach or issues experienced much appreciated

Thanks,
BG

 

[Mr Tidy]

I'm sure I read that on the E85/86 models you need a different carrier for the calliper to get it to fit.

I think it was the same part that was fitted to E46 330 models.

So I think you will need new carriers - probably worth a look on "realoem" to check whether it is a different part to what your car has.

 

[Smartbear]

Hi, after reading of your ability & lack of experience you really shouldn’t be working on brakes.
Step away & call in a mobile mechanic (if he’ll come out) or this is going to end in tears.
Rob

 

[BeemerGuy]

Hi, after reading of your ability & lack of experience you really shouldn’t be working on brakes.
Step away & call in a mobile mechanic (if he’ll come out) or this is going to end in tears.
Rob

It may come to that, ...my local garage that id have asked normally is closed, but as I don't really need to drive it thankfully I thought id have he space to learn, make mistakes, improve; buut thanks it's a fair view.....im still going to need new carriers it would seem.

I was asking what parts I'd need on here, but my interpretation of the advice recieved seemed to be that the existing carriers would be compatible...i had my doubts.

 

[BeemerGuy]

I'm sure I read that on the E85/86 models you need a different carrier for the calliper to get it to fit.

I think it was the same part that was fitted to E46 330 models.

So I think you will need new carriers - probably worth a look on "realoem" to check whether it is a different part to what your car has.

Thanks for the steer...will see what I can do to improve my understanding....what do do with the loose bolt however hmm

 

[JimsZ]

This thread needs pictures, you would probably get more input that way.

you know how the saying goes... a picture paints a thousand words

just an idea

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, after reading of your ability & lack of experience you really shouldn’t be working on brakes.
Step away & call in a mobile mechanic (if he’ll come out) or this is going to end in tears.
Rob

It may come to that, ...my local garage that id have asked normally is closed, but as I don't really need to drive it thankfully I thought id have he space to learn, make mistakes, improve; buut thanks it's a fair view.....im still going to need new carriers it would seem.

I was asking what parts I'd need on here, but my interpretation of the advice recieved seemed to be that the existing carriers would be compatible...i had my doubts.

You need the caliper carrier to match

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part?id=LL52-EUR-08-2012-E89-BMW-Z4_28i&mg=34&sg=05&diagId=34_2248&q=34116769097

 

[Jasonn]

We have all started somewhere - I'd never even changed a light bulb, then tried a disc change on my old capri - the only advice I can give you is to read and read again (I never had "YouTube" back in the 80s, we used 'Haynes' manuals instead - and they don't make them for the E89).

Take your time, you don't "need" the car thanks to the lock down, so don't feel rushed and for the love of god, especially with brakes - don't take shortcuts, add your own 'interpretation'" or deviate from the manual.

If I can give you any recommendations for equipment, it'd be to get an "easibleed" kit if you're working on brakes on your own as (in my experience) neighbours are crap when you tell them to keep their foot on the pedal.

Work slowly and methodically, ask people who know, this group has some really knowledgeable people and with all car enthusiasts (even the Mercedes lot) if you're happy to put up with some good natured p*ss taking its a different hobby that gives you a great deal of satisfaction.

There is no better feeling than when it all works after you fix a problem.

 

[Nictrix]

Well done for trying, probably not the best idea to start with brakes but a bit late now.
By the sounds of it other than the problem with the bolt and the carriers not fitting all that was missing was brake fluid and you would have had it done.
Through experience on all the jobs I have undertaken on cars and bikes sometimes it doesnt matter how prepared you are, things can go wrong.
The last one to go wrong for me was swapping out the rear springs after one snapped. Everything going great until I was putting the new rear spring in and too much pressure on the wishbone snapped the droplink. Luckily I was able to pick up a pair locally but a 10 minute job turned into a couple of hours.

 

[Jakg]

I don't want to be a doom-monger but you really should've planned ahead better.

If you did manage to just let it flow until it stopped then you'd have drained all the fluid out and got air in places that it's very difficult to get out.

Are you bleeding the brakes properly? You don't just leave the nipple open and pump the pedal continuously - you either need two people or a pressure bleeder.

You also obviously need to bleed all four calipers - not just the one you've removed.

If your brake fluid level was ok before, you were going to lose fluid when swapping the calipers so obviously you'd need some. Let alone what you'd lose while bleeding the system.

The fixed brake hoses are a pain - I normally get braided hoses with a swivel end for this reason.

 

[Chippie]

It’s better to have tried and failed than not to try at all, the Only real way to learn is to get hands on and have a go, from what you have written I’m not sure you are bleeding the brakes correctly, you either need two people to pump the brakes whilst undoing and retightening the bleed Nipple or an easy blend kit, it sounds like you are drawing air back into the system through the piston, whatever you do don’t let the reservoir empty as you may then have problems bleeding the ABS pump.
I remember the 1st time I changed a brake pipe, I didn’t realise I needed a brake flaring tool, i ended up flaring the end by hand and careful driving it to a local garage to get it done properly, but you live and learn (hopefully) .
Do plenty of YouTube research, try to get all the parts and have another go.
Another time I fitted a new cam shaft for my brother in law, everything went great but the car wouldn’t run properly, called a mobile mechanic out who checked it over, turned out I’d put the spark plug leads on in reverse order, I felt a right tit but a lesson learned, make sure you take note of what you have removed and where it came from, take plenty of photos, it could save you a load of grief later. Good look and take your time, it’s free

 

[mcbutler]

Send it all back and refit OEM parts but with these pads Ferodo ds2500. This is all you need for a road car.
You see people spending literally hundreds of pounds on big multi pot calipers, vented or slotted discs and the like, you don't NEED any of it.
I know slotted discs look better but you gain virtually nothing on a road car, drilled discs are a style thing only, rarely used in high stress track cars as they crack!

 

[flybobbie]

I fitted (is it Mintek?) slotted and drilled discs and ebc green stuff pads on my 23i.
I get virtually no brake dust, unlike the std, discs and pad, which were dreadful for dust.

 

[ph001]

I’m all for people having a crack at diy and it’s pretty hard to get the brakes ‘dangerously wrong’ as long as they are bled properly. I think all you needed was probably upgraded pads though as said above. Anyway, I would almost certainly say you are going to need a pressure bleeder as sometimes you just can’t get the pedal to pump the fluid through.

As for the brake hose - you just undo the flexi from the other coupling (where it joins the solid pipe) first. Then it’s dead easy and you dont need to spin the caliper around. You can buy rubber caps that fit over the exposed brake union for pence on Ebay.

It really is quite important that you don’t let the fluid drop too low in the master cylinder otherwise it’s a whole heap of hassle.

 

[Jembo]

Skimming the post & having previously upgraded my old 3.0, you definitely need both 330 callipers AND carriers

Have a look in the HOW TO section, there is a brilliant section precisely on this (which I used)

 

[mcbutler]

I fitted (is it Mintek?) slotted and drilled discs and ebc green stuff pads on my 23i.
I get virtually no brake dust, unlike the std, discs and pad, which were dreadful for dust.

Yes those green pads are very low dust, a good choice.

 

[nightyard]

You learn by doing so persevere and get it done yourself.

YouTube is your friend.

 

[john-e89]

I’m all for people having a crack at diy and it’s pretty hard to get the brakes ‘dangerously wrong’ as long as they are bled properly. I think all you needed was probably upgraded pads though as said above. Anyway, I would almost certainly say you are going to need a pressure bleeder as sometimes you just can’t get the pedal to pump the fluid through.

As for the brake hose - you just undo the flexi from the other coupling (where it joins the solid pipe) first. Then it’s dead easy and you dont need to spin the caliper around. You can buy rubber caps that fit over the exposed brake union for pence on Ebay.

It really is quite important that you don’t let the fluid drop too low in the master cylinder otherwise it’s a whole heap of hassle.

Hmmm not sure about the dangerously wrong part.....I knew a guy that stripped his brakes, went inside for Sunday lunch, forgot to put any pads in both front sides, promptly put his car through someone’s garden wall down the road....I kid you not, he was trying his own repairs as the OP. Easily done tbh if you’ve not done brakes before and wander off halfway through.

Well done for having a go but double and triple check everything Beemerguy....seriously.

 

[BeemerGuy]

I’m all for people having a crack at diy and it’s pretty hard to get the brakes ‘dangerously wrong’ as long as they are bled properly. I think all you needed was probably upgraded pads though as said above. Anyway, I would almost certainly say you are going to need a pressure bleeder as sometimes you just can’t get the pedal to pump the fluid through.

As for the brake hose - you just undo the flexi from the other coupling (where it joins the solid pipe) first. Then it’s dead easy and you dont need to spin the caliper around. You can buy rubber caps that fit over the exposed brake union for pence on Ebay.

It really is quite important that you don’t let the fluid drop too low in the master cylinder otherwise it’s a whole heap of hassle.

Thanks have ordered 2 litres of bmw 4 dot, and the easibleed pressure kit. The level is OK, so far so I will be especially careful of that thanks.

I feel committed to plough on with this job, and will take my time, find a solution for the bolt, get the right carriers, and maybe change the pipes too as well as getting the rubber caps.

I like to try things, and am typically a completer finisher....so I'm sure ill get there...and safely. If I really have big doubts I wouldn't hesitate on calling someone in...

Thanks for all the constructive, sobering and also positive advice

 

[BeemerGuy]

I'm sure I read that on the E85/86 models you need a different carrier for the calliper to get it to fit.

I think it was the same part that was fitted to E46 330 models.

So I think you will need new carriers - probably worth a look on "realoem" to check whether it is a different part to what your car has.

The carrier bracket is part 34116769097. They don't look easy to source sadly.....