engine swaps on E85's

[Lightning87]

as i saw some engine swaps made be ac schnitzer, hartge, mannhart are there any people who have let this done here ? or even beter did it them selfes ?

as i know there is an american member prepairing for a ls1 swap.
and in germany 1 guy is buisy building a dodge viper engine into his z4C

if i would ever do a swap isn't the N54B30 twin rubo not the best thing to do as it ( exept for turbo's ) is the same as the M54B30 of the E85 ??

the oly big problem then seems to be the elektronics. is that the main reason fo the hig costs of a BMW engine swap ? as the engine's it self isn't that expensive ( an N54B30 costs aroudn € 4-5k in germany, without the transmission)

 

[koolchris99]

the V10 from the M6 fits...

 

[Lightning87]

i know that but it's more about how do you get such a thing working, an N54B30 probably fits in just nice as it's developt from the M54B30,

but most big tuners ask aroudn 50-60k how the hell do they get so such numbers as the N54B30 doesn't cost as much neighter do the V8 or V10,

so are these cost just for the electronical side of the swap ?? as mounting a other engine some people can do that on them selfs, so why pay 60k at say hartge while if you got somebody to do the electronical part, you'll keep the swap maybe under 15k ?

 

[sars]

This is where the numbers just don't add up for engine swapping, it is far cheaper and easier to buy an M

 

[Lightning87]

in the uk it might be, in holland, and M still gonna cost me around 30k maybe a little bit less, so do an engine swap under 10k, with a M beating engine, i would be ahead of the M, this aint a verry serieous attempt do accutaly do a swap, but more how come it's gonna cost the world to do a engine swap on a BMW, wille on some other car's it's even easier to do.

found this old thread :
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22378&start=15

also about the N54B30.

 

[Maniac]

Its fairly logical really. These cars were not intended to use the engines you talk about. Therefore you have to change more than just the engine. There's usually bodywork modifications, engine and transmission mounts. Different transmissions, different differentials, different brakes and suspension for weight and power changes. Different cats, exhausts, manifolds, you name it. Its a complex job, not just pop out pop in.

 

[tomscott]

Then you have all the problems with insuring a car with an engine that doesn't belong to it too. Its a huge effort all round which is why people haven't bothered.

 

[srhutch]

Then you have all the problems with insuring a car with an engine that doesn't belong to it too. Its a huge effort all round which is why people haven't bothered.

Insurance may not be such an issue in other countries though, only the UK seem to operate in the way we do from what's been posted before.

 

[Lightning87]

@ maniac, mostly the N54 is almost the same as the M54, so not much toch change, i under stand that a v8 of v10 conversion would cost a lott more, but the N54B30 is a changed M54B30 ( even jeremy clarkson know's that ) and as you know the M54B30 is the engine of the pre facelift Z4.

@ tomscott, as i go to the dutch autorithy, and they apporve the car, i don't see any problem in insuring it, as in holland more swaps are commen. in vw's honda's and opels there are much engine swaps, same goes for the E36. so i don't see a problem with insurrance in holland. the only problem could be the insurance company doesn't trust me with that kinda power.

so what stays are mostly some parts like upgrading the brakes. ( witch is normal) and the hardest part the electronics wich in my eyes are the main reason not to do a swap.

with an M engine and drive train, do you need to change the wiring also or only the ECU. ?

 

[Mau]

@srhutch: being a Dutch licensed lawyer I can respond to that for the Netherlands: you will get into trouble with that in the Netherlands as well, unless you have it approved as road legal by a specific government agency and re-insured accordingly. Having that done normally is not a real problem, but needs to be done to avoid this kind of trouble.

The police actually also checks for these kinds of modifications at car / speed / tuning / etc. festivals (mostly after you were pulled over because they expect your exhaust or engine being too loud or you have other visible modifications that are not allowed). Also not a problem, as long as you can show that the licence papers have been amended accordingly (by the government authority referred to above).

 

[Lightning87]

@ mau, that laywer thing does ring a bell, you're at the dutch forum too right ? ,




commin year i'm first going to invest in other mods, ( like brakes and suchs parts) but for al lot more power it seems there are only 2 ways; ESS or an engine swap. so why not find out right now if things can be done in the future.( hopefully somebody does the blody swap and we all can learn from it ( hartge did it but ask serious € )). i'm not concernd about the legal part, more about the technical parts of a engine swap, as how doe you get every thing to work cause mounting the engine and a good shop make an exhaust and stuf should'nt be to hard with the N54

 

[Rialas]

in the uk it might be, in holland, and M still gonna cost me around 30k maybe a little bit less, so do an engine swap under 10k, with a M beating engine,

But it'll never be an M.
Just a Frankenstein conversion which will always be hard to sell.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[tomscott]

Ye well I did mean in terms of money as well as difficulty in insuring with non de-script manufacturer parts.

Also resale value like Rialas has said if you manage to keep the cost down, say to £15k and the car is an 03 worth possibly £5-8k then budget £5k for other potential upgrades to suit the engine then your current amount is nearly £30k all in without hitting too many problems. Resale value will take a big hit so you will be lucky to get the value it currently has stock.

So the car would have to be a project car and in a complete financial venture, where resale costs aren't a problem. Rather than a car you can easily swap and change to another.

So really it would make more sense to buy a complete M, which was designed meticulously and will always be worth more than a moded car with an engine change.

 

[Mau]

@ mau, that laywer thing does ring a bell, you're at the dutch forum too right ?

Sure thing, I am one of the admins there referred to as the "Forum Beul" :chophead:, but according to my mother I am a really decent chap. :rofl:

:hijacked: As an off topic if you would participate in the "Ronde van Utrecht" of 26 August organised by my brother and myselves, we could shake hands and have a pint

 

[Lightning87]

the thing about reselling it is a valid point, but you guys think in UK prices, as at your shores, an M is around 15k pounds, in holland it's gonna coast me around 30k euro's witch is a 23.5k pounds zo that's an 8.5k higher than in the uk.

and i don't know if i'm ever going to sel the car.

but isn't fitting parts of the N54 like the intake/exhaust manifold, and do a custom turbo set up, an option ? as those parts probably fit the M54 engine ( 3.0 is stronger then the 2.5 but i could use the parts from a 3.0 ), if it's posible it could be an interesting option, as you don't need to swap the whole engine and transmisson and other stuf, and it probably be a lott cheaper than the HPF turbo kit.

 

[Lightning87]

@ mau, that laywer thing does ring a bell, you're at the dutch forum too right ?

Sure thing, I am one of the admins there referred to as the "Forum Beul" :chophead:, but according to my mother I am a really decent chap. :rofl:

:hijacked: As an off topic if you would participate in the "Ronde van Utrecht" of 26 August organised by my brother and myselves, we could shake hands and have a pint

aha i thought it would be you, at the 26 of august i'm spending my long waited for hollyday in turkey.

and i don't drink not even when i'm not driving .

 

[Rialas]

but isn't fitting parts of the N54 like the intake/exhaust manifold, and do a custom turbo set up, an option ? as those parts probably fit the M54 engine ( 3.0 is stronger then the 2.5 but i could use the parts from a 3.0 ), if it's posible it could be an interesting option, as you don't need to swap the whole engine and transmisson and other stuf, and it probably be a lott cheaper than the HPF turbo kit.

Probably much easier and better idea.
Certainly would be a fun project.

 

[Mau]

aha i thought it would be you, at the 26 of august i'm spending my long waited for hollyday in turkey.

Bummer, enjoy the holidays anyway!

 

[Lightning87]

thanx mau ! maybe we'll meet some time in holland !




but anyone more thaught's about a N54 manifold swap with turbo's ? and 3.0 internals ?
would it be achivable ? as i think the manifolds would fit ( because it being a moddified M54)

 

[tomscott]

But your nearly at that price point with the conversion... including how much the cars worth and its a lot of effort, with no guarantees that the car will be as good as an M anyway, which is worth the premium if you ask me.

With the M you will get all the precise engineering, LSD, Hydraulic steering, M accessories too like the body kit seats and one that is fully loaded sat nav etc. The 2.5 is a completely different car to the M as stock.

Z4Ms havent sat at 15K the price varies from 14 for a quick sale or higher milage example to nearly 20k for a garage queen so its all relative really. (Edit, I am in coupe mode, the roadsters are cheaper.)