Engine rattling + which Indy around Leicester?

[Milz4y]

Hi all,

Just recently bought a z4mr over the weekend and looking to take it to a good independent, ideally M specialist, around the area of Leicester or nearest town for an inspection 1 and VHC.

Any recommendations for the indy?

Would've like to take to Redish for an inspection 1 and VHC but it's a 6 week wait time, and want to know what jobs I need.

I am hearing an abnormal grating / knocking noise from the engine most notable at idle revs. Started on my drive home, 2 hours in, then again today on cold startup: I've done a fair amount of reading and listening to vanos issues etc and it's not the normal idle sound IMHO.

The noise speeds up with revs, and coming from deep in the engine bay, even within the dashboard. It is not a constant noise and goes away / becomes very faint.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19BQqvdq0GQBa7S6my39gtjFrM-bYbByH/view?usp=drivesdk

Thoughts on the noise? Con rod, vanos, water pump, hydraulic lifers etc?

I had the car checked by an Indy in before I bought it - block test was clear and the Indy said it sounded and felt great ok the drive. No loss of power and strong pull. 53k on the clock

 

[Ed Doe]

you're probabyl closer to Mr Vanos - he does everything from Vanos to full engine rebuilds. Well worthspeaking to him as he will likely be able to help you diagnose it based on your video.

Is there any glitter in your oil? most times when a rod bearing goes you'll get all sorts of swarf in the oil. I'd avoid driving it until diagnosed - if it is rod bearings, a replacement crank is circa £2.5k from BMW and numbers start getting really scary from there on in....

 

[HGoward]

I took my coupe into MSC on Slater Street a couple weeks ago. They seemed decent but I didn't have any work done, it was just for some investigation work. Charged £90 for it

 

[Lower]

I used to take my M Coupe to Autotechnik in Lutterworth who i found to be very good. They didn't really do anything other than routine servicing and rear spring replacement for me, but they have a good reputation and i was happy with the service worth they did for me.

https://auto-technik.co.uk/

 

[Ed Doe]

just looked at your video, you got anything from the engine bay rather than inside the car? I can definitely hear something, but difficult to be sure what it could be hearing from inside the cabin, except that it must be fairly loud if you can hear it inside!!

 

[Milz4y]

Ed - I'll check the oil filter soon. I don't have a video inside the engine bay unfortunately. If the noise comes back (and I dare turn the engine on) I'll see if it comes up again.

I'm also going to send an oil sample to Millers analysis before I turn on the engine again.

Then I'm going to get it checked locally probably at MSC BMW or MTek in Northampton to see what's what. The indy that inspected it spent an hour on the phone with me and was only most sympathetic - he nor I noticed this noise before I bought the car, both of us on our test drives and inspections.

Lower, HGoward - thank you for the local knowledge!

 

[Simon 3.2M]

It sounds like a tired / flattened lifter to me, it sounds too high pitched to be a rod bearing. Either way best of luck getting a speedy solution so you can get her on the road.

 

[Ed Doe]

https://youtu.be/Ae7CX1c8EE8

This was my flattened follower for reference....

Although weirdly it did randomly go away after a month at Redish, but before my new cams and followers went in...

 

[Milz4y]

Doesn't look like any glitter in the oil filter. Black bits yes but nothing shiny or metallic. Pics attached

Here's a video of the sound of the engine after the drive home when the engine was hot. At the time of recording there was no abnormal rattling noise:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWTl-lVVUPjwcP4QgPVvOcPFjHn0OR5w/view?usp=drivesdk

Rang a few Indys who said it could be a spun bearing or conrod but most advised not to drive it until it's had an inspection. Fingers crossed

 

[Beedub]

that reminds me of when i had a e46 m3 in the shop.... turned out to be a snapped vanos bolt.... or numerous snapped vanos bolt, either way. don't drive this if you can avoid. Any good with the spanners? whip off the valve covers and have a look around the shims and the exhaust hub tabs.

 

[maxman]

Did you buy private or from a dealer.If it was a dealer,I would be looking for him to sort it.
As others have said ,don’t drive it until it’s fixed.

 

[Milz4y]

I bought it privately and actually from a forum member... they are not willing to pay the difference to repair a mechanical fault, or take responsibility, which is utter BS.

I did look up on citizens advice on my rights and informed the seller: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/

If it's confirmed as an engine issue I will be chasing the seller on the basis the car was not as described, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979, asking to pay for the engine repairs.

Ordered a Millers Oil analysis and will get it in for diagnostics tomorrow locally. Thanks for the help folks.

Beedub, I can do basica on cars i.e. brakes and service.. I might have a go on the weekend

 

[bg1]

Who's sold an M Roadster recently then?

 

[AndyBeech]

Oh dear, bit awkward

I would say though getting a diagnosis over the internet from a video on these engines is notoriously difficult as they make a lot of mechanical sound so it's very hard to tell. Even physically sitting in the car in different positions or up against a wall can make it sound like something is broken. Something needs looking at for sure but isn't necessarily a game over.

I would get it inspected properly and go from there before going nuclear, could be something minor.

It's a difficult one for the seller and for yourself but realistically I'm not sure you can expect them to take responsibility as a private seller, you said yourself that you and an independent mechanic both heard nothing on a test drive so proving that the seller did anything wrong is going to be incredibly difficult.
Not being harsh, just realistic (no idea who the seller was, btw, just from a neutral point of view.)

Good luck with it and let us know what happens, it might be something small :wink:

 

[Ed Doe]

Doesn't look like any glitter in the oil filter. Black bits yes but nothing shiny or metallic. Pics attached

Here's a video of the sound of the engine after the drive home when the engine was hot. At the time of recording there was no abnormal rattling noise:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWTl-lVVUPjwcP4QgPVvOcPFjHn0OR5w/view?usp=drivesdk

Rang a few Indys who said it could be a spun bearing or conrod but most advised not to drive it until it's had an inspection. Fingers crossed

might just be me, but there does appear to be an abnormal amount of 'bits' in the oil... shiny or otherwise...

As said by others, difficult to diagnose from a video - I'd have asked for a video with the revs being varied / held at 2k or 3k, but to be honest I'd want to get it across to a specialist before starting/running the engine any more really.

best of luck and keep the thread updated as you progress the diagnosis, be good to understand what it was!

 

[Simon 3.2M]

Doesn't look like any glitter in the oil filter. Black bits yes but nothing shiny or metallic. Pics attached

Here's a video of the sound of the engine after the drive home when the engine was hot. At the time of recording there was no abnormal rattling noise:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BWTl-lVVUPjwcP4QgPVvOcPFjHn0OR5w/view?usp=drivesdk

Rang a few Indys who said it could be a spun bearing or conrod but most advised not to drive it until it's had an inspection. Fingers crossed

might just be me, but there does appear to be an abnormal amount of 'bits' in the oil... shiny or otherwise...

As said by others, difficult to diagnose from a video - I'd have asked for a video with the revs being varied / held at 2k or 3k, but to be honest I'd want to get it across to a specialist before starting/running the engine any more really.

best of luck and keep the thread updated as you progress the diagnosis, be good to understand what it was!

I agree with Ed, doesn’t appear to have “metallic” debris from the photos.

I would engage with the seller and open dialogue before finger pointing in the hope of things don’t become confrontational. Personally if a car I sold went bang the same day I’d be looking to help / resolve the issue wIth the purchaser.

 

[AndyBeech]

I would engage with the seller and open dialogue before finger pointing in the hope of things don’t become confrontational. Personally if a car I sold went bang the same day I’d be looking to help / resolve the issue with the purchaser.

I'm guessing it was Rossm09 that he brought it from......I don't know, it's a tricky one, same day maybe. Was it same day though? How long is too long for a private seller to be culpable for a repair? The week after, a month after, 100 or 1000 miles after? How can the seller be expected to know the condition of the rod bearings / cams / VANOS if it's just had normal servicing and it sounds ok?

It's a tough break but that's why buying private is riskier (and cheaper), if you want a warranty / comeback then that's what dealers are for......if an independent inspection came back with nothing how would you expect the seller to know any different or be responsible? Sounds more like just bad luck to me
Not aimed at you Simon, just thinking out loud :wink: It's one of the situations you hope never happens from both buyer and sellers point of view I guess.

Anyway, all trivial until the problem is actually known it could be relatively minor.

 

[Milz4y]

Re when it happened:
It happened same day, 2 hours into driving it home, cruising at 70mph I heard it on the motorway. Thought it was the heater / AC. Gave the seller to benefit of doubt.

Then again on a cold start two days later (Tues) and it was very clear and loud (the video in the cabin). It died down after a while.

Re the oil:
The black flakes in the oil tub pic I sent crumbled under my fingers so I'm glad it's not metallic. Still want to check the webs of the oil filter. Any recommendations for z4m oil filter part replacement? Or just Google it?

Re. seller:
Would rather not get into a pissing contest about the seller here, so not going to say who it is, or have that conversation here. All I'm saying is the seller is not interested one bit in helping me fix this. But I've stated my rights and not started the car since I recorded the noise on Tuesday.

Honestly the expense I'm getting quoted for an engine teardown is silly. Sump and big end shells off to inspect. May as well do a con rod bearing replacement at the same time if it gets to that... (First TBD if it's needed - going for a diagnosis but I have little confidence it can be diagnosed without taking apart the engine?) i.e. just by listening to it?

Plan:
I'm going to get a recovery vehicle to take to a garage after I've got the Miller Oil sample results. Will be a couple of weeks before I know much more

Rant:
If it is confirmed an engine issue I would be gutted. I wanted to enjoy M ownership and got off to the worst start... even after cautiously and thoroughly doing inspections before buying, including reading on this forum for about 3 months now!

 

[Simon 3.2M]

Wise words mate to be fair - I thought as a buyer you had 24hrs from the point of sale. As you say buying secondhand privately is a minefield. I’m sure no selling on this forum would sell knowing of an issue, especially if they are happy for an Indy to take a look.
Does seem like a case of desperately bad luck - lots hope their is a cheap, speedy resolution.


I would engage with the seller and open dialogue before finger pointing in the hope of things don’t become confrontational. Personally if a car I sold went bang the same day I’d be looking to help / resolve the issue with the purchaser.

I'm guessing it was Rossm09 that he brought it from......I don't know, it's a tricky one, same day maybe. Was it same day though? How long is too long for a private seller to be culpable for a repair? The week after, a month after, 100 or 1000 miles after? How can the seller be expected to know the condition of the rod bearings / cams / VANOS if it's just had normal servicing and it sounds ok?

It's a tough break but that's why buying private is riskier (and cheaper), if you want a warranty / comeback then that's what dealers are for......if an independent inspection came back with nothing how would you expect the seller to know any different or be responsible? Sounds more like just bad luck to me
Not aimed at you Simon, just thinking out loud :wink: It's one of the situations you hope never happens from both buyer and sellers point of view I guess.

Anyway, all trivial until the problem is actually known it could be relatively minor.

 

[Rossm09]

I was the seller - now without trying to start a stream of argumentative comments etc this is the situation - Milan no disrespect took 2 months to buy the car, asking every question possible and questioning my answers/honesty many times throughout the process of selling him the car - I happy sent him everything he asked - documents/specific pictures/videos, I happily took time out of a working day to drive the car to a local bmw specialist of his choosing for an inspection of the car, he then agreed to get the train down - I happily collected him from the train station and spent the over 2 hours with him while he drove the car, went over the car meticulously, listened to it, went over check lists, reved it.
All of this I done with pleasant patients I even sat with him in my garden for 45 minutes while he got his insurance sorted, he then drove home the 250 miles and messaged me saying how pleased he was with the car - 2 days later I get a stream of messages regarding the noise - as I had nothing to hide pleasantly replied to him not block him or tell him to simply leave me alone of which continued to a barrage of messages how I apparently knew of the issue and it was my duty to fix it etc well I’m sorry but he spent 2 hours himself doing every check he wanted he also paid a specialist to check the car and it was driven away from my house with no issue so I’m sorry this doesn’t fall on my lap for responsibility