E89 road prescence

john-e89 said:
Z4M-2006 said:
You cano move the lever if the paddles don't do it for you??
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Yep been using the shifter only just recently to get all perspectives, it's no different though, it's just a small un-satisfying click forward and back with no clutch. The whole thing is good, but not satisfying enough, and that's the problem.
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I have just been using my admittedly ancient ZF6 gearbox in manual with the lever and I feel exactly the same as you and I also miss just being able to blip the throttle just for fun, when I had the DSG in the TTS I got bored with that really quickly too and using the paddles was fun...for about 5 minutes!

Modern autos/twin clutches are very good now and super fast at shifting gears and I hold them in high regard for their technical achievements but for me they just cant replace the enjoyment/satisfaction of a traditional three pedal manual box and it has been mentioned on the thread is that it boils down to personal preference.
 
john-e89 said:
If I don't go boxster then I think it'll be 35i, yes it's a shame, I hold my hands up and admit I've ballsed up, a 35is with a proper manual would be awesome.
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I have always loved the 35is and its my favourite model but same as you when I used to read the reviews of it I always wanted it to be offered with a manual and I thought it was a shame and when I was browsing for a 35i finding one with a manual seemed a challenge and they do also seem to be a pretty rare car.
 
Aye...

I know it's hard to alter driving style after years of driving...

I'm the same myself... I would say 85% of my cars have been clutch operated manuals... I do love old school feel, but you gotta adapt with the times, DCT will never replace a gear-lever, but it's the way all manufacturers are going..

It's a great system, but you have to learn how to use it... If you choose to..

I don't think a 7 speed manual with lever would be a nice box to use..especially one that needs to handle the power and torque.. Look at the previous "M" gearbox... Clunky and notchy, a masterpiece it isn't, so much so that like you it has spoiled the experience of the car for its owners and they have sold up..

Good luck with your search... I'm sure you will find happiness some way... Even if it's with a 987 :(
 
Z4M-2006 said:
Look at the previous "M" gearbox... Clunky and notchy, a masterpiece it isn't, so much so that like you it has spoiled the experience of the car for its owners and they have sold up..
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This is such a well made point and as most know I love a traditional manual gearbox but I really struggled to love the manual in my Z4M and completely detested it from first to second, so flipping it on its head you can see why BMW have developed such an amazing gearbox in terms of the DCT and also many owners of Z4`s love the ZF6 Auto as well.
 
In a way, for me anyway, the 35is is a victim of it's own doing, I'll get shot for this and I really don't want to start a blah vs blah debate but it's very similar to an M, it handles very well, power aplenty, even better noise, Imo obviously, but without the too notchy gearbox. So if it had a manual it would be superb, but it hasn't, so the nearest to it is a 35i. The best boxes I've tried are the S2000 and mx5, superb old school rifle loading mechanical action. A 35i is a lot smoother and very light if they are the same box as the other E89's, but I like them.

So while you can still buy a manual it may well be the way to go.

Gaz you've mentioned a couple of times about using the DCT properly, can you explain what you mean as I'm interested in all opinions, cheers muchly.
 
Yea...

I can't think of a manufacturer that does a 7 speed manual shift gearbox... There is probably someone out there..

For years and years when the power got up, many where opting for autos... Getting a gearbox to work smoothly with a big clutch and all that tranny mech is not an easy task...


John, I don't think your doing anything wrong at all....and if it the "feel" of the lever that's just a click instead of a gate feeling that irks then you will never be happy..

It's probably the familiarity of the H pattern, and knowing instinctively what gear the car is in that you like... And I don't blame you.

But by altering what you do at gear-change you know what you need to change to, to get what you need... Is a different way of driving , and like any change you need to learn to get the best from it..

I'm no DCT fanboy by the way.. And I detested SMG in earlier BMW's... But once you get online with the tech it can be faster and more precise...
 
LeeZ4MR said:
Z4M-2006 said:
Look at the previous "M" gearbox... Clunky and notchy, a masterpiece it isn't, so much so that like you it has spoiled the experience of the car for its owners and they have sold up..
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This is such a well made point and as most know I love a traditional manual gearbox but I really struggled to love the manual in my Z4M and completely detested it from first to second, so flipping it on its head you can see why BMW have developed such an amazing gearbox in terms of the DCT and also many owners of Z4`s love the ZF6 Auto as well.
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The box is a Getrag box ( 7DCI600 irrc for the older models, I think 7DCI700 now as the 600 was discontinued ), http://www.getrag.com/en/products/powershift/powershift.html - this means up to 700nm possible on this box standard ! (from 500!) You won't get that from the 35i OEM clutch !

Nothing to do with BMW except they would have access to the ECU and control modules to decide the pressures and various other parameters. The Getrag (and probably other) DCTs have certain options to set the maximum pressure (wet clutch system) - which allows for higher amounts of torque. The difference between the M DCT and the normal DCT is software only. The part numbers between the Z4 35is and M3/M4 are the same - there may be a few tweaks such as the max pressure / tuning.

Getrag make boxes for Ferrari too - Ferrari 458 (7DCL750)
 
Yes I can see what you're getting at and you're right. Boils down to being able to accept a different style or not, we'll see, going to try a few different cars before pulling any trigger as I can't afford another mistake. Also maybe need to keep at the DCT for a while yet to get fully used to it.

Cheers for your and everyone's input. :thumbsup:
 
Z4M-2006 said:
stuartinzg said:
Z4M-2006 said:
Yea...

I can't think of a manufacturer that does a 7 speed manual shift gearbox...
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Porsche 911
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Hope there better than their 6 speed units
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:D 6 spd manual 996 i had was the worse gearbox & clutch ive ever experienced
The current M box & clutch i can't fault or complain about :? slips into any gear pi55 easy , clutch isnt heavy & id say a joy to operate
 
stuartinzg said:
LeeZ4MR said:
Z4M-2006 said:
Look at the previous "M" gearbox... Clunky and notchy, a masterpiece it isn't, so much so that like you it has spoiled the experience of the car for its owners and they have sold up..
Click to expand...
This is such a well made point and as most know I love a traditional manual gearbox but I really struggled to love the manual in my Z4M and completely detested it from first to second, so flipping it on its head you can see why BMW have developed such an amazing gearbox in terms of the DCT and also many owners of Z4`s love the ZF6 Auto as well.
Click to expand...

The box is a Getrag box ( 7DCI600 irrc for the older models, I think 7DCI700 now as the 600 was discontinued ), http://www.getrag.com/en/products/powershift/powershift.html - this means up to 700nm possible on this box standard ! (from 500!) You won't get that from the 35i OEM clutch !

Nothing to do with BMW except they would have access to the ECU and control modules to decide the pressures and various other parameters. The Getrag (and probably other) DCTs have certain options to set the maximum pressure (wet clutch system) - which allows for higher amounts of torque. The difference between the M DCT and the normal DCT is software only. The part numbers between the Z4 35is and M3/M4 are the same - there may be a few tweaks such as the max pressure / tuning.

Getrag make boxes for Ferrari too - Ferrari 458 (7DCL750)
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Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
 
LeeZ4MR said:
stuartinzg said:
Z4M-2006 said:
Yea...

I can't think of a manufacturer that does a 7 speed manual shift gearbox...
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Porsche 911
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PVR speaks very highly of the 7 speed manual in his 911 I believe.
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I need to read some technical papers on it, I'm interested if it's just an extension of the existing unit or a totally new design. The manual here still lets you select 1st to 7th I think. I think the DCT design means sequential is required because of the way the 2nd clutch works, up or down where you are now, has a clutch ready to engage. It might be that the 7 speed from Porsche is basically a DCT gearbox with the clutch swapped out with a conventional unit (i.e. gears and shafts design are mostly the same)... need to read more into it, I started with the design papers but some of the mechanics are a bit complex ...
 
john-e89 said:
The 35is sound does make you grin mind, the pops and bangs on downshifts, especially over 4k, are addictive, that would be very hard to lose, I don't know how much difference a 35i would be with the 10db less, yes yes 10db obviously, but I mean how much difference overall would it make from the cockpit, no way of knowing unless I can find a demo car for sale somewhere.
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I've had both a 35i (previous) and iS (current). you will definitely miss the sound of the exhaust if you move to a 35i. it's more noticeable than the power difference.
 
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