Our dealer just emailed to say he is still waiting to hear back from BMW . . .
E89 20i - Hill Assist
- Thread starter Gsm
- Start date
robertsskippyj
Member
Wouldnt the 2 seconds that it takes the handbrake to come off completely be the same as the 2 seconds that the hill hold works for?
The disclamer re spec gives them complete protection in this case I would have thought. The only way that the Sale of Goods act applies is if the vehicle is not fit for purpose which it is as it opperates perfectly as a car should. The hill hold is just a driver aid and not necessary for the perfect funtioning on the car. A court would dismiss the case as its not BMW's fault people are finding it difficult to do a hill start with the electronic hand brake. Ok last sentance is a little harsh but thats the view a court would take.
The disclamer re spec gives them complete protection in this case I would have thought. The only way that the Sale of Goods act applies is if the vehicle is not fit for purpose which it is as it opperates perfectly as a car should. The hill hold is just a driver aid and not necessary for the perfect funtioning on the car. A court would dismiss the case as its not BMW's fault people are finding it difficult to do a hill start with the electronic hand brake. Ok last sentance is a little harsh but thats the view a court would take.
robertsskippyj
Member
Thinking about it I wonder if the info is wrong as BMW UK rather than make a new profile on there website etc just changed the name and engine details on say the 23i and 30i and called it a good job.
The thing is the item must be as described when sold under the sales of goods act. This isn't technically as described though and due to this it means that you would have to give the dealer the right to amend the car or be due a replacement or refund.
It's you bought a kettle that said it lit up and you got it and it's turns out the kettle didn't light up but still functioned well as a kettle you would have the right to take it back as not matching the description.
It's you bought a kettle that said it lit up and you got it and it's turns out the kettle didn't light up but still functioned well as a kettle you would have the right to take it back as not matching the description.
robertsskippyj said:
That isn't how BMW's hill start assist works.
Hill start assist only holds on the service brake. When you get enough power to the wheels to hold the car, the brakes release immediately. If you keep the clutch depressed longer than 2 seconds, the brakes will also release and the car will roll.
The EPB puts on both the service brake and a mechanical parking brake. If the car is moving, it uses the DSC (ABS) pump to apply the service brake. There also are a pair of electric motors connected through drive belt and gears to a mechanism that clamps down the rear brake pads. In the car I test drove, it took a little time for the motors to release the rear brakes. It works fine as a parking brake. Well at least until your battery goes flat. There is no way to release the EPB if the car looses power.
If you look on Page 58 of BMW document ST901 -- E89 complete Vehicle, there is a graph showing brake force verses time. It takes nearly as long for it to turn off as it does for it to apply.
Google should find you the document. If you are interested in a detailed description of how the car works, it is worth a read.
Hill Holders on other cars may work differently. On our '80s Subaru it was an entirely mechanical system. It worked well but you had to adapt your driving style a bit.
robertsskippyj
Member
KeithJ said:
I have to agree with you there with the kettle and many other goods this is very true, but they didn't put a disclaimer on the kettle. The disclaimer is there for this very reason to prevent law suits when they have changed the specs and not updated or forgotten to or translated wrongly the bumph into the non german bumph. Rightly or wrongly and if it came to it this disclaimer would hold up in a uk court as the car performs perfectly.
robertsskippyj
Member
Thanks for the info will have a read. I just assumed that there was a computer program that controled all of it as the 4 cylinders must have the same braking system apart from different sized disks.Andrew*Debbie said:
robertsskippyj said:
That is all true however there is also a part in the sales act that discourages traders and dealers from actively engaging in clauses that restricts the rights of customers. Sold as seen, trade sale, etc. They are all meaningless when it comes to the Sales act as this infringes upon the rights of a cunsumer.
Here is a quote
"Some car traders try to use disclaimers such as 'sold as seen', 'trade sale only' or 'no refund' to restrict your rights. This is against the law and you can report any trader that does this to Consumer Direct, the government funded consumer advice service."
along with one of the rights when buying the car
"as described, eg the car should match its description given in conversation or in an advert"
robertsskippyj
Member
True as well but try taking it to court if bmw and someone wanted to go that far I could almost garentee the outcome.KeithJ said:
Just a little side what do you do work wise? Only wondering as you have a good grip of law.
robertsskippyj said:
Thats if BMW UK would even bother to take it as far as court as the bad publicity would far outweigh the positives they could take from the case. Can you imagine BBC Watchdog along with various other news feeds reporting that BMW is going to court to defend a mistake on their website by saying there is a disclaimer despite the fact it had been brought to their attention weeks and possible months before. True, in the legal sense they could point to the disclaimer however if that was the case then a car trader could point to "sold as seen" as a disclaimer. It could be seen as infringing upon the rights of the sales of goods act.
As a job I work in Corporate Governance which is mostly to do with rights of share holders, directors jobs, etc. My grasp on the law, acts just came as part of a few things I went through for my professional qualifications.
I am no legal expert though however I am just giving my view on how I see the sales of goods act vrs the disclaimer.
robertsskippyj
Member
I have to agree with you totally. I'm just looking at it from the point of view of it going all the way to court. I wouldn't like to be prosecuting BMW on the point.KeithJ said:
Wow page 12 
Has anyone actually asked BMW, like called them, about this? Presumably a definitive discussion with them might help clear it up for any of you so aggrieved? Might...
BMW Customer Services: 0870 5050 160
BMW General Customer Information: 0800 325 600 (Free)
BMW Dedicated Vehicle Information Team: 0906 209 0001 (£1 a minute, keep your query short!)
I figure the latter might provide the real info typically. Though the others might be worth a shot first.
Has anyone actually asked BMW, like called them, about this? Presumably a definitive discussion with them might help clear it up for any of you so aggrieved? Might...
BMW Customer Services: 0870 5050 160
BMW General Customer Information: 0800 325 600 (Free)
BMW Dedicated Vehicle Information Team: 0906 209 0001 (£1 a minute, keep your query short!)
I figure the latter might provide the real info typically. Though the others might be worth a shot first.
navid.v said:Maniac,
I think everybody is waiting for their cars to turn up and hoping it will have it
Sure, understandable. However there's so much worry in here, if it were my car, I'd stump up a couple of quid to talk to the people in the know rather than the messengers (dealers).
Maniac said:Wow page 12
Has anyone actually asked BMW, like called them, about this? Presumably a definitive discussion with them might help clear it up for any of you so aggrieved? Might...
BMW Customer Services: 0870 5050 160
BMW General Customer Information: 0800 325 600 (Free)
BMW Dedicated Vehicle Information Team: 0906 209 0001 (£1 a minute, keep your query short!)
I figure the latter might provide the real info typically. Though the others might be worth a shot first.
Yes, my dealer is acting on my behalf and has taken it up with BMW UK. Can't say no more than that for now.
In my experience you are always better to have the dealer on your side. At the end of the day they are not at fault, even they were surprised when they tested their demo car and it wasn't available.
navid.v said:exactly, if it was my car, I would have either cancelled or requested a different car by now
In some way I agree, however most of the guys waiting for their cars have got them through truly amazing deals, cancelling your order now would be cutting your nose off to spite your face, because they are under no obligation then to match the deal if you decide to re-order it. As long as they have taken reasonable steps in trying to solve the issue, and basically there isn't any as it cannot be retrofitted, you don't have a cat in hells chance of winning any legal battle with the lawyers that a multi billion pound company can hire if they wish too.
And for what, something you don't actually need but yes would be nice to have, if you are to late to modify the order, then I'm sorry, truly I am but get over it and enjoy the car or cancel and buy something else
Hill assist is not like a heated steering wheel, would be nice to have but wouldn't pay for it.
I ran my car for 2 months and in that time my wife drove it once, she hated the EPB , I did to but put up with it until we got the replacement.
One of the offers made to me was £1000 credit at any BMW dealership, I just laughed.
At the end of the day I think I came out of it in a much better car.
I simply would not have bought the Z4 if I knew it never had it, so I believe I was misled and the dealership should know the product they are selling.
I ran my car for 2 months and in that time my wife drove it once, she hated the EPB , I did to but put up with it until we got the replacement.
One of the offers made to me was £1000 credit at any BMW dealership, I just laughed.
At the end of the day I think I came out of it in a much better car.
I simply would not have bought the Z4 if I knew it never had it, so I believe I was misled and the dealership should know the product they are selling.
