E85 - VANOS Unit / Persistent issues - HELP!!

[Ricardo1992]

Morning All,

I hope someone would be able to help here as currently I seem to be throwing lots of money at the car without actually fixing the problem.

Whilst driving my zed the other week, I noticed when I started the engine and took off, the note the engine produced when you put your foot on the gas pedal wasn't quite right. It was much louder than usual (this seems to be something which I have noticed that no one else seems to mention when speaking about the VANOS unit). Within about 3 miles, the car showed some huge telltale signs that something wasn't right. As I started accelerating off a roundabout, all of a sudden power cut out to the gas pedal and the car started rough idling. Four lights came on the dash (all amber) - Brake warning Light, EPS / traction control, Check Engine & the Engine Management Light. As I had pulled over, I turned off the ignition, then tried restarting it where lo and behold, the lights had disappeared however the engine still sounded loud. A few further miles down the road, put my foot down and again, lights appeared and power was lost.

The following day, I ran the codes to see what was up. P0011 & P0014 appeared. Doing my research, realized that this was relating to the variable valve timing. So right away, I get myself a new camshaft position sensor (exhaust side) and replace the existing. Unfortunately, the issue still remained.

Secondly, I decided to take off the VANOS unit and replace the seals and o-rings on both pistons, new valve cover gasket, new inner VANOS gasket, piston bolts & plugs. A lot more hopeful that potentially a loose pistons within the VANOS unit could have been the issue (although to be honest, when replacing the seals, it didn't appear that bad). With the VANOS unit out, visually inspected the two solenoids and both seemed fine. Put it all back together, ran the car and again, same issue.

Running an extremely deep diagnosis, it came up with a number of codes - these faults listed below being the most useful:

DME: Oxygen-sensor heater after cat. conv., bank 2: activation
DME: Inlet camshaft: mechanical
DME: Exhaust camshaft: mechanical

Rather than continually throwing money at the car (now in the hundreds £££), has someone had these symptoms previously and is able to assist with diagnosing what the problem was for them?

Thanks in advance.

 

[enuff_zed]

DME: Inlet camshaft: mechanical
DME: Exhaust camshaft: mechanical

After changing the VANOS on mine, I had these two codes.
Now, you say you inspected the solenoids..............do you mean the electrical solenoid itself, or the mechanical piston valve that it actuates?
In my case, it turned out that the pistons were sticking in the bores. They both seemed to have a little bit of 'varnish' on them.
I removed them (which is fiddly but achievable in situ), cleaned them up with some very fine wet'n'dry, coated them in new oil, popped them back in and pushed them in and out several times to make sure they sprang back out and didn't stick.
Reassembled, reset adaptations using my Autophix 5900 and it cured it.
It does take a hundred miles or more for the car to completely relearn the settings, but just keeps getting smoother and smoother.
Hope that helps?

 

[Ricardo1992]

DME: Inlet camshaft: mechanical
DME: Exhaust camshaft: mechanical

After changing the VANOS on mine, I had these two codes.
Now, you say you inspected the solenoids..............do you mean the electrical solenoid itself, or the mechanical piston valve that it actuates?
In my case, it turned out that the pistons were sticking in the bores. They both seemed to have a little bit of 'varnish' on them.
I removed them (which is fiddly but achievable in situ), cleaned them up with some very fine wet'n'dry, coated them in new oil, popped them back in and pushed them in and out several times to make sure they sprang back out and didn't stick.
Reassembled, reset adaptations using my Autophix 5900 and it cured it.
It does take a hundred miles or more for the car to completely relearn the settings, but just keeps getting smoother and smoother.
Hope that helps?

Thanks for your response. Appreciate it.

Whilst I had the VANOS off, I took the pistons out which seemed to be smooth/no sticking. However, I will attempt your method of cleaning with wet'n'dry, re-oiling, and reassemble. Did your car also sound completely deafening/loud when you put your foot down with this issue?

 

[enuff_zed]

DME: Inlet camshaft: mechanical
DME: Exhaust camshaft: mechanical

After changing the VANOS on mine, I had these two codes.
Now, you say you inspected the solenoids..............do you mean the electrical solenoid itself, or the mechanical piston valve that it actuates?
In my case, it turned out that the pistons were sticking in the bores. They both seemed to have a little bit of 'varnish' on them.
I removed them (which is fiddly but achievable in situ), cleaned them up with some very fine wet'n'dry, coated them in new oil, popped them back in and pushed them in and out several times to make sure they sprang back out and didn't stick.
Reassembled, reset adaptations using my Autophix 5900 and it cured it.
It does take a hundred miles or more for the car to completely relearn the settings, but just keeps getting smoother and smoother.
Hope that helps?

Thanks for your response. Appreciate it.

Whilst I had the VANOS off, I took the pistons out which seemed to be smooth/no sticking. However, I will attempt your method of cleaning with wet'n'dry, re-oiling, and reassemble. Did your car also sound completely deafening/loud when you put your foot down with this issue?

Mine sounded normal beforehand, then ran lumpy at idle when the fault first appeared. Wasn't louder though.
I would suggest you simply whip the solenoids off, stick your finger in the hole and make sure the pistons move in and out freely. If they do, then no need to go any further really.
Something is causing those codes though? Are you sure oil is getting to the vanos unit ok?

 

[Ricardo1992]

After changing the VANOS on mine, I had these two codes.
Now, you say you inspected the solenoids..............do you mean the electrical solenoid itself, or the mechanical piston valve that it actuates?
In my case, it turned out that the pistons were sticking in the bores. They both seemed to have a little bit of 'varnish' on them.
I removed them (which is fiddly but achievable in situ), cleaned them up with some very fine wet'n'dry, coated them in new oil, popped them back in and pushed them in and out several times to make sure they sprang back out and didn't stick.
Reassembled, reset adaptations using my Autophix 5900 and it cured it.
It does take a hundred miles or more for the car to completely relearn the settings, but just keeps getting smoother and smoother.
Hope that helps?

Thanks for your response. Appreciate it.

Whilst I had the VANOS off, I took the pistons out which seemed to be smooth/no sticking. However, I will attempt your method of cleaning with wet'n'dry, re-oiling, and reassemble. Did your car also sound completely deafening/loud when you put your foot down with this issue?

Mine sounded normal beforehand, then ran lumpy at idle when the fault first appeared. Wasn't louder though.
I would suggest you simply whip the solenoids off, stick your finger in the hole and make sure the pistons move in and out freely. If they do, then no need to go any further really.
Something is causing those codes though? Are you sure oil is getting to the vanos unit ok?

Ok, thanks. It seems too much of a coincidence that the sound of the engine changed along with the fault all within 3 miles. Will re-check the solenoids though just to be certain. But felt smooth yesterday when I had the unit off. Oil appeared to be getting to the unit without any issues (was plenty of oil there when it came off yesterday anyway!).

 

[Ricardo1992]

Thought I would attach a photo of the warning lights too...

 

[enuff_zed]

(was plenty of oil there when it came off yesterday anyway!).

Ha yes, it goes everywhere doesn't it?
Looks like you have a different issue to me then.
But I would say that the sensors are telling you there's a problem with the movement of the cams, so something must be causing it, or the sensors are lying?
Maybe the solenoids aren't operating those valves?

Hope you can work it out.

I assume you've reset all the codes and they are coming straight back?

 

[enuff_zed]

Thought I would attach a photo of the warning lights too...

Weird?
There are many people on here with better understanding of all the computer gubbins than me, hopefully one will chip in soon.
But to me, I am at a loss to explain how they are all linked.
Obviously EML is an engine issue, probably linked to the codes we've discussed.
But the traction and brake ones point more towards an ABS sensor or something like that?

 

[enuff_zed]

Grasping at straws, but could the Oxygen sensor code be triggered by the valve timing being wrong? Maybe unburnt fuel getting through?
Would this also potentially make the engine sound louder?
If so, this would point to the fact that the vanos is not adjusting the cam angles as it should.
If it did this before AND after the overhaul, should you maybe look for correct signalling to the vanos solenoids?

I would be looking to sort this first before worrying about the traction and brake warnings.

 

[Ricardo1992]

(was plenty of oil there when it came off yesterday anyway!).

Ha yes, it goes everywhere doesn't it?
Looks like you have a different issue to me then.
But I would say that the sensors are telling you there's a problem with the movement of the cams, so something must be causing it, or the sensors are lying?
Maybe the solenoids aren't operating those valves?

Hope you can work it out.

I assume you've reset all the codes and they are coming straight back?

Agreed! Made a huge mess but luckily managed to catch most of it. Cleared the codes and comes back every time. It’s odd as it’s intermittent. Sometimes when I push it, the codes won’t appear. Then I try and floor it other times and it will pop back up. It does seem to be something relating to when I put my foot down at the lower rev range. I.e. second gear for example going round a corner at about 10-15mph, foot to the floor to accelerate then it will cut power.

 

[Ricardo1992]

Thought I would attach a photo of the warning lights too...

Weird?
There are many people on here with better understanding of all the computer gubbins than me, hopefully one will chip in soon.
But to me, I am at a loss to explain how they are all linked.
Obviously EML is an engine issue, probably linked to the codes we've discussed.
But the traction and brake ones point more towards an ABS sensor or something like that?

Hope so! Unsure what the four light combination actually means myself apart from reading the codes and the two mentioned earlier appeared. It’s what’s got me stumped as I can find similar articles relating to the VANOS but nothing seems to have the same other effects as me (I.e. the increase in loudness of the car for example).

Thinking potentially an electrical fault somewhere rather than mechanical? Local auto electricians at £100 ph and that was a few years ago now, (although can be quite good) is a service I really want to avoid. Especially if it turns out to be something completely different.

 

[Ricardo1992]

Grasping at straws, but could the Oxygen sensor code be triggered by the valve timing being wrong? Maybe unburnt fuel getting through?
Would this also potentially make the engine sound louder?
If so, this would point to the fact that the vanos is not adjusting the cam angles as it should.
If it did this before AND after the overhaul, should you maybe look for correct signalling to the vanos solenoids?

I would be looking to sort this first before worrying about the traction and brake warnings.

Good logic there. One option (which I doubt but did pop up as a code) was under voltage battery. Seems a bit odd, but potentially a faulty battery throwing all sorts of strange codes to the electrical components? Battery is getting checked out today/tomorrow but similarly, I’m also clutching at straws.

 

[enuff_zed]

Grasping at straws, but could the Oxygen sensor code be triggered by the valve timing being wrong? Maybe unburnt fuel getting through?
Would this also potentially make the engine sound louder?
If so, this would point to the fact that the vanos is not adjusting the cam angles as it should.
If it did this before AND after the overhaul, should you maybe look for correct signalling to the vanos solenoids?

I would be looking to sort this first before worrying about the traction and brake warnings.

Good logic there. One option (which I doubt but did pop up as a code) was under voltage battery. Seems a bit odd, but potentially a faulty battery throwing all sorts of strange codes to the electrical components? Battery is getting checked out today/tomorrow but similarly, I’m also clutching at straws.

Hi, sorry for the slow reply. Went out for the afternoon. Note to self...do NOT try to get to Great Yarmouth on a Bank Holiday weekend!!!
Anyway, battery may be your first call. See how it goes with that.

 

[Zulu4]

I had symptoms which were similar to yours (but N52 engine and no discernable change in engine sound). Changing both solenoids cured the problem.

 

[Ricardo1992]

I had symptoms which were similar to yours (but N52 engine). Changing both solenoids cured the problem.

Thank you, battery and wiring has been checked up to solenoids. All fine so it’s getting power. Got a solenoid ordered this afternoon. Will replace one and see if it fixes the problem. If not, I may need to fork out the extra cash to replace the second one. But will run codes as soon as I replace to see if it shows any different.

Will keep you all updated....

 

[SloanRH4]

To me it looks like the camshaft sensors, I've seen a lot of people that had problems with rpm "stability" to fix it with camshaft position sensors. Keep in mind that some of the sensors, although new, don't work very well, if I'm not wrong Hella ones seem to work fine (except for OEM, of course). What I can't relate it to though is the DSC error... my other guess, since you seem to hay 3 different problems that might be unrelated (camshaft sensors, DSC and lambda) would be the battery, when it's not working properly car throughs a lot of different errors, but you said you already checked that...

 

[Zulu4]

I definitely got DSC errors when my solenoids were playing up. Can't explain why though.

 

[Ricardo1992]

Right, still no idea what the issue is. So far, changed the solenoids within the VANOS unit, the camshaft sensor, o2 sensor, o-rings at the bottom of the fuel filter and all seals within VANOS unit.

Checked both VANOS exhaust and inlet positions which seem to be stuck at 11.00% even when gas is applied. Checked electrical lines to both solenoids and reading exactly what they should. So thoughts is that its a mechanical issue and not an electrical.

Anyone got ANY idea of what it could be? Feels like every option has now been explored and no fix. I am at the point of almost giving up with the car.... :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

 

[bigwinn]

Hi bud

Read your issue before- sorry to hear you are still having issues

The only other angle I would say check, from my experience.

Have you dislodged or damaged any of the ccv kit?

When I did my vanos (1st time) I made a schoolboy error with the oil filler cap

That made the engine run poorly on deceleration and it threw lean running bank codes

May be nothing but it took me a while to see where I’d c0cked up

Stuart

 

[Ricardo1992]

Hi bud

Read your issue before- sorry to hear you are still having issues

The only other angle I would say check, from my experience.

Have you dislodged or damaged any of the ccv kit?

When I did my vanos (1st time) I made a schoolboy error with the oil filler cap

That made the engine run poorly on deceleration and it threw lean running bank codes

May be nothing but it took me a while to see where I’d c0cked up

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for your comment. I have checked the CCV kit and from a visual inspection, there doesn't appear to be any damage. When taking the breather off to remove the VANOS, this was done successfully and without any issues.

Ran a full ISTA+ scan on the car trying to narrow it down. However, the one thing I cannot seem to be able to do on the M54 engine is check the oil pressure with the software. Checked battery voltage, Oxygen sensors, etc. One error I did get was when triggering the Camshaft position controller intake and exhaust. Error being "ERROR_ECU_CONDITIONS_NOT_CORRECT_OR_REQUEST_SEQUENCE_ERROR" for both...