E85 / E86 HIGH MILEAGE PARANOIA

There are other factors at hand here for me.

Milage isnt the issue its the wear everywhere else. My Z4M has done 74k and the very nature of the car being low long bonnet etc is the wear on the aesthetic elements as much as the mechanical. I dont like a shabby car and I enjoy sorting it as far as it can go without paint.

Mine was used hard in its previous life and it did look shabby, usual stone chips incredibly swirled because of a car cover and really it needs a front end respray, same with the skirts and the rear bumper as the valance was wrapped and when it came off water had got under pealing the paint etc so everything but the rear wings and boot.

Interior is the same all the steering wheel soft plastics have warn and other elements in the cabin as we all know that need refreshing.

Thats what puts me off a higher miler. It's also taking on other peoples issues when you buy them you cant comb them 100%. Lots of projects of people buying fixing and moving them on for profit to keep them on the road.

My M has cost me a lot more than my first one which is to be expected as it's much older. The Z4M seems to be the only car not appreciating and the prices have flat lined and have for quite a while with only moderate increase in price in the coupe.

So my point is it depends on who you are and what your OCD is like. I have come from a background with my dad having "Garage Queens" low milers similar to PVR so my OCD gets quite high. I also like a specific generation of car like the Z4M (which is in the 15-20 year old category now) where I think buying low milers is kind of pointless as if you drive them it ruins their value, dont drive them they waste away in a garage so I think 60-70k is a decent compromise and is now becoming "Low miles". Drive them and put loads of miles on them they are really hard to sell.

For example I dont know if anyone listens to Smith and Sniff the car podcast, but on this weeks episode he needed a key cutting for this fiat panda 100hp and the guy who came to do the job had a 200+k E92 M3 and couldn't sell it, nobody would touch it although from the sound of things it was well looked after. After being for sale for a long time he ended up selling it as a parts car to a breaker.

Even so if you are the type of guy who likes to show your car and keep it nice the costs of getting it into better condition often doesn't make any financial sense as they arent appreciating either. I could spend 6-10k on a respray as I wouldn't want to do it on the cheap but the car is still probably only worth 14-15k.

What was nice is I went to Ultimate BMW meet a couple of weeks ago and mine was certainly one of the better examples of cars there but there was a huge spectrum.

Anyway just an argument on the other side of the coin.

I would lean toward a lower miler car for that reason, costs more but sorting a poor car out can be more costly and worth less.

Not to say there isn’t any good condition higher miler but the more they have the less they are worth and for anyone outside a forum people tend to spend less looking after them because of that economy and that cars are disposable these days.

If you are buying cheap and then piling the miles on the OCD is much lower.
 
Yeah two different camps in my view.

Buy a mint example as an investment with low miles and store it and hopefully see a mild increase in value over the long term, or...

... just buy a good one that's been well cared for and drive the bloody thing before you die.

Life's too short!

Owen
 
I personally think Z4's are meant to be driven. Either as a weekend car or as a daily. I absolutely daily mine and its awesome. Always tunring heads in my little city and always surprising my friends with how much i can fit in the trunk :rofl:

Just my perspective
 
I got fed up of repainting/repairing panels every year (doing 30k miles). I'd do the bumper, then a wing, then another wing, then the bumper again, and once I got a nice dent in my bonnet everything started getting put off until 'next year'. Even had PPF on the front half for a few years, but it was nowhere near as protective/fit & forget as they claimed.

Maybe if I stopped driving it, and put it into a dry garage for 99% of its life, then I might have the whole thing resprayed, but for now I think I'll live with the 'patina' :P

Not long after I bought the Z4MC (in 2008), I went to a car show where I was on the BMWCCGB stand with a dozen or so other cars. There was one 1970s model in particular where the owner said he only brought it out for 5-6 shows a year and the odd summer drive, but got it resprayed every year at a cost (in 2008) of £2500. He probably spent more on resprays than he did on every other cost.

But as was pointed out in another thread...there's very little on my car that's actually done the full 164,000 miles (besides the body structure/chassis, I think it's only gearbox, bonnet, tailgate, rear lights that are original) :roll:
 
From my experience in this day and age, miles don't mean a thing. You can pretty much any condition bring to life. I bought my Z4 with 190.000 km on the clock, from my friend, who bought it from my friend who was the first owner. So for me, the service history and the fact that the car was doing less than 10.000 km per year (pure weekend joy) was a big plus to me.

Now, I have 218.000 km, I took the car to Tuscany, to French Riviera, and I just love occasionally drive it every day (spring, summer, autumn). I think that the car is meant to enjoy.

Wearing is not a problem, as I had a full detailing 2 years ago, and the guys really give a treatment to the car. And now it is 20 years old, so my philosophy is as I really love the car and I like to keep it until becomes an old timer, for an investment of 5.000 - 7.000 EUR, I can rebuild the car - paint job, seats, plastics and the engine.

And the car is ready to go for another 300.000 km.

I have a bad experience with low milage old cars, as they tend to break as soon as you start using them properly. I have a friend who has 2004. Miata (1.6) with 18.000 km on the clock. Basically the new car, but he is so afraid to drive it that is crazy. And I am telling him that life is to short to drive boring cars and that Miata is still a Miata, so he should enjoy it. It's not that kind of a collectable, as 911, Z4M or even Z3M. Miata is like VW Golf among roadsters.

So, you can definitely bring back the time with the car, rebuild the engine, suspension, refresh the paint, buy new rims, buy a new roof top, rebuild seats and interior, and the car is like a new.

I mean look at that beauty:
IMG_4237.jpeg

Perfect for a shity rainy day to go to the grocery store.

And I know myself, this one is perfect as it has imperfections that help my OCD to drive him every day. As soon as I repaint the front bumper, bonnet, and side-skirts from stone chips, as soon as I put him in perfect condition, I will hesitate to take this car for a 2000 km road trip, and when that day comes, I will have a miserable day.

So, I will keep it and love it for the next 100.000 km. And then I will invest and bring him into 2003. like the new.
 
Lots of things in play isn't there.

In the UK as a general rule people dont like cars over a certain mileage. Regardless of condition.

You can buy on condition and be that guy that proves to everyone that miles doesn't matter, but when you try and sell it see what happens.

The main gripe I have is when people have cars for sale at high mileage and when I ask if the suspension has been refreshed, the clutch done, any consumables done, bushes changed, engine mounts done, anything that can degrade over time and they say no...effectively they are saying here is a car with a small discount for miles that you will have to spend 50% the value of the car to keep it going in the first year of ownership.

I tend to sit in the camp of reasonable miles and jobs done, somewhere in the middle. I dont do much more than 5k miles a year in my second car, so I dont want to spend a fortune getting it back to a good state and I know I can still sell it on without the hassle of high mile anxiety the UK has.
 
coldel said:
high mile anxiety the UK has

Here is also like that, but from my experience, I would rather drive a well-maintained 200.000 km car than a 50.000 km car that was driven like a rental.

I had so manny bad experiences with that, that now I am more of a guy who is looking at who I am buying a car, is it enthusiast, a lover, long-time owner or not.

Because a enthusiast will do everything, new suspension, clutch, everything will be in perfect condition. And regarding how can you revive your high milage car, I enjoy Sreten and his YT channel - https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations M539 Restorations, he really shows how you can bring any car to life.
 
zriha said:
So, you can definitely bring back the time with the car, rebuild the engine, suspension, refresh the paint, buy new rims, buy a new roof top, rebuild seats and interior, and the car is like a new.

I understand what you're saying but then if you have that idea of not bothered about spending more than it's worth why not just buy another and do the same. You can do what ever you want with anything but doesn't mean it makes sense.

At the end of the day its horses for courses and not saying I agree or disagree just a different point of view.
 
coldel said:
Lots of things in play isn't there.

In the UK as a general rule people dont like cars over a certain mileage. Regardless of condition.

You can buy on condition and be that guy that proves to everyone that miles doesn't matter, but when you try and sell it see what happens.

The main gripe I have is when people have cars for sale at high mileage and when I ask if the suspension has been refreshed, the clutch done, any consumables done, bushes changed, engine mounts done, anything that can degrade over time and they say no...effectively they are saying here is a car with a small discount for miles that you will have to spend 50% the value of the car to keep it going in the first year of ownership.

I tend to sit in the camp of reasonable miles and jobs done, somewhere in the middle. I dont do much more than 5k miles a year in my second car, so I dont want to spend a fortune getting it back to a good state and I know I can still sell it on without the hassle of high mile anxiety the UK has.

Well said pretty much how I feel but more succinct :rofl:
 
zriha said:
coldel said:
high mile anxiety the UK has

Here is also like that, but from my experience, I would rather drive a well-maintained 200.000 km car than a 50.000 km car that was driven like a rental.

I had so manny bad experiences with that, that now I am more of a guy who is looking at who I am buying a car, is it enthusiast, a lover, long-time owner or not.

Because a enthusiast will do everything, new suspension, clutch, everything will be in perfect condition. And regarding how can you revive your high milage car, I enjoy Sreten and his YT channel - https://www.youtube.com/@M539Restorations M539 Restorations, he really shows how you can bring any car to life.

It is great as a buyer as all that work has very little residual value in the M world.

In the Porsche world prices vary hugely. If you look at a 996 C4S they will be 16k all the way to 40k with sometimes similar cars year and miles with big price differences. Its because they need the maintenance and buyers won't buy with the amount of horror stories.

Doesn't really work in the BMW world. They still need the same work but it isnt seen as value. I saw an e46 M3 with 150k for sale for 27k but it had been stripped and rebuilt. Sat for a huge amount of time. Probably because you could get a sub 50k car at a similar price although that car won't be as good mechanically as it will need all the work doing.

Just a strange scenario.

In the Z4M world for example if a car hasnt had its bearings done by 70k people will use it as a bargaining tool but at £1500 its like 10% the value of most Z4Ms. If the sus hasnt been done again another £1000, engine mounts etc to the point where a 75k car is being haggled for 11-12k so both sides of the coin.

In that scenario you can spend the 3-5k to have it all done for someone to buy for ask. Essentially it doesn't make economical sense.
 
Gents, let's face it, if we are talking about value and the price, here, then we are owning the wrong car. :) I mean, if I was looking analytically, I would never have a Z4, or Mini Cooper S, I would probably have a BMW 3 series / VW Passat / Golf or Toyota Yaris or something... :)

tomscott said:
I understand what you're saying but then if you have that idea of not bothered about spending more than it's worth why not just buy another and do the same. You can do what ever you want with anything but doesn't mean it makes sense.

At the end of the day its horses for courses and not saying I agree or disagree just a different point of view.

And yeah, I agree with you, it depends on what person are you, I like to build, buy, and improve, now with the new Mini Cooper S, I have nothing to do, I am bored. :) With Z4, I always have something to improve, research, and do myself, so it's a hobby, and a hobby doesn't have a value in money, but it has psychological value. :)
 
My 05 3.0 just went over 200k miles runs strong. I think keeping up with maintenance is key to long life. Am the 3rd owner and it is now used for nice weekend trips. Just replaced clutch original started to slip. head gasket. Vanos and ccv done as preventive not showing issues. Then we have kept up with the normal items, fluids, tyers, brakes etc. Next on list is belt tensioner starting to make noise. Plain is to retire next year and drive the country. So it needs to be in top shape!
 
Ultimately it’s an individual choice/ budget preference, some people will always favour lower mileage cars based on their experiences, and like wise the same for those who go for higher mileage cars, my personal thoughts are, cars are changing at a rapid rate with EVs, I do wonder in the future if we will have the resources to enjoy cars as we do today, so for me enjoy them as much as you can 🙂
 
As we saw in the lock down, when the demand drops the price of petrol drops like a stone. So if everyone is EV, than at least it will be cheap to run the petrol cars :D

My logic and I stick with it :lol:
 
After over 2 years of relatively fault-free ownership, my gearbox has started playing up on 99976 miles…

The curse of 100k strikes again! :cry:
 
SqerrNipz said:
After over 2 years of relatively fault-free ownership, my gearbox has started playing up on 99976 miles…

The curse of 100k strikes again! :cry:
manual/auto/smg?
 
Chris_D said:
SqerrNipz said:
After over 2 years of relatively fault-free ownership, my gearbox has started playing up on 99976 miles…

The curse of 100k strikes again! :cry:
manual/auto/smg?

Auto, there’s a post somewhere below about it. Basically started kangarooing and a host of fault codes appeared. Booked in Wednesday with an auto transmission specialist (apparently)…
 
With luck it’s an oil and filter change, mine started snatching the changes and hanging on to drive, oil and filter cured it I was lucky.
 
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