Dealers doing/not doing valve clearances

[mmm-five]

Whilst I was waiting for news of my Z4's fate, I asked the dealer (who shall remain nameless as they did me a favour by accepting my recovered car on a Saturday rather than it being sent an extra 30 miles away) about the valve clearances and the time required to do the job.

They said that if a car was coming in for just valve clearances then it would cost around £300 as it was two hours labour plus a few parts, and that was assuming they didn't need to order any shims.

I grabbed hold of this bit of the sentence mentioning ordering shims as needed, and they quite openly stated that they and most other dealers don't hold any stock of shims and they are all ordered as needed. The only time they'd have amy in is when some were ordered for another job but not used.

I left it there my friend had arrived to take me to their house to await the hire car as the dealership was closing. But it raised a paranoid thought in my mind...if they order shims as needed, and they take at least a day to arrive, how can they measure, order, and shim all in the same day?

 

[Wondermike]

Mmm interesting, I know you don't believe that they adjust the shims at all when they do the service in the same day, suppose this is just more evidence to support that.

My belief is the same as another recent post, can't remember who said it (maybe you?), but unless there is a noise coming from the tappets then they are left alone and not even checked.

 

[Great Pretender]

The car needs to be stone cold to do the shims anyway does it not?

Surely then a dealer will need to have the car overnight.

 

[sammyz]

Think that was me! Indy had told me that when he worked at a dealership they really wouldn't touch them unless customer was adamant they needed doing.

Certainly interesting, my Insp 1 is due in 4,000 miles and I think there is a slight tick from tappets which I expect them to sort out. I assume they charge for checking them in Insp 1 even if they say they are fine??

 

[mmm-five]

I assumed he meant that if none needed shimming then the car would be handed back at the end of the day after the overnight stay, and if any were needed they'd call to say it would be out of action for another day while they waited for the shims.

My problem isn't them taking your car away for possibly 3 days, but as has been said whether they can really justify the price while maintaining they can do a 'full' inspection in what amounts to an 8 hour day.

BTW, I'd have trusted this dealer to do an inspection on my e34 M5 or Z4 if they weren't 250 miles away

 

[Darren M]

What`s up with the car mmm-five?
I`d be surprised if dealers don`t carry a stock of these shims as the S54 is now quite a common engine, and the shims must be cheap?

When I had my old S14 powered M3, no dealers carried the special tool required to fit the shims, let alone the shims.

I suspect the shims don`t need adjusting/replacing that often. However, when I take my car in for an Inspection I`d expect them to be checked, especially if we`re paying the price of the check, but I wouldn`t be surprised if they were fine for 60k + miles. Maybe on a car driving harder that might not be the case.

 

[mmm-five]

I've been told (by the dealer) that I've got a dodgy cam position sensor and worn rear trailing arm bushes, but that both are covered under warranty.

No sign of any spring or engine mount problems, although my discs & pads are worn

The shims are about £5 each and to keep stock of enough of each size to cover any requirement they would need 528 (22 different sizes between 1.72mm and 2.60mm in 0.04mm increments x 24 valves) - although there is a kit availble of a few of each for about £500, which I thought most dealers would have and refill as they used the shims.

 

[Wondermike]

Before cars had hydraulic lifters didn't all cars have to have their clearances checked and shimmed if required? So why does BMW make such a meal of doing it on the ///M? Or do they do something different to what used to be done/

 

[mmm-five]

I thought doing them on S14 and S38 engines was fiddly, but they just have a big shim with the cam lobe resting directly on it.

The s54 has tiny shims which are under little lever which is under the cam lobe, and the engine is cantered over quite a way so getting into them is a pain.

 

[Z4//MMY]

I bought my Z4M back in April all sounded quiet from the engine (on 17500miles).

In the 6 months since the valves have got very noisey...

I went into my local stealer and they had a look said its normal valve noise no need to worry, adjusted at next service. (Which they quoted me £960 for ?!!?!?!!?!?!?!)

i have only done 2000miles (yes 2000 in 6months, I need to get out more!)since buying the car from BMW AUC with the 1 yr warranty.... do you think I have any hope of getting anything from the dealer I bought the car from??

They told me when I bought it that if it needed servicing within 4000miles they would do it before I bought it but as it didnt..... however, within 2000miles it needs an adjustment thats part of the service.....

 

[mmm-five]

The rule of thumb on e34s was "if it's quiet, it's not right".

That simply meant that if the clearances got tight it would create a quieter engine and you'd normally assume that was a good thing. However, both the e34 M5 and the e85/e86 Z4Ms have quite tight parMeters where the valve gear are working at their opimum.

Being outside of this range doesn't necessarily mean the engine is being damaged, but the chance of failure increase as they get further from nominal.

It probably wouldn't matter to a normal driver, but it would to either someone who uses all the revs or to someone who labours the engine.

The car and engine is just too new to draw any firm analysis.

 

[SittingBull]

You or I can buy a full shim pack for approx £80.00 from the dealer. With a £2.00 feeler guage set & a couple of tiny flat headed screwdrivers you can do it yourself. Paying £900.00+ is hilarious. - But then, perhaps many of you are cowboy plumbers/electricians - or run wheel clamping firms......

I'm not far off the mark & hopefully next year your companies will be defunct!! :lol:

 

[Darren M]

^

:sos: He`s on the old peoples drugs again. Keeps him alive but oh so cranky :shutup: ldman:

 

[mmm-five]

You or I can buy a full shim pack for approx £80.00 from the dealer.

I'll take you up on you offer of a full shim kit (that's doesn't mean one of each shim - which would only cost about £100 anyway - but the FULL shim kit) for £80 - I'll even pay you £20 extra for your trouble.

Let me know when in the next couple of days that you've got it and I'll paypal you the money immediately.

 

[martinb1966]

just out of interest sitting bull what exactly is it that you do in your ivory tower that you can look down on all the rest of us ? :thumbsdown:

 

[Z4//MMY]

Paying £900.00+ is hilarious. - But then, perhaps many of you are cowboy plumbers/electricians - or run wheel clamping firms......

I'm not far off the mark & hopefully next year your companies will be defunct!! :lol:

£900 would be for the service + valve adjustments..... and I was shocked at this too.

And, although, yes, I am most likely perfectly capable of doing it myself, the car is under a BMW warranty which I do not intend in invalidating, also I do not have the tools, the place or time to do this.... this is why I work, so I can pay others to carry out these tasks for me..... and you know what? Although the BMW labour cost is high, I knew this before I bought the car....

 

[srhutch]

Shipkiller put up a post on checking and shimming the S54 engine and a pdf on his site

http://www.shipkiller.com or direct to http://68.230.199.103:8080/S54.html

The shim kit is quoted at $319.50 so you can guess how much it would be in the UK

 

[mmm-five]

The dealer I spoke to didn't look up the price for the shim kit, but just picked a number from the air I'd guess.

BTW the kit only includes 6 of each shim - which should cover most single valve clearance check and you'd have to be really unlucky to need more than 6 of the same size, and you could probably fit something very close without harm.

 

[sammyz]

Was at Autotech in Telford on friday having the hood set for remote closing. Peter, the BMW specialist seems to know his 'M' egines and will carry out valve adjustments as part of service. He said the job could be done in the same day if the car was dropped off first thing allowing engine to cool down and if necessary using compressed air to aid the process to get the temp below 20 degrees Centigrade.

Perhaps this is how some dealerships do the job on the same day??

 

[mmm-five]

Was at Autotech in Telford on friday having the hood set for remote closing. Peter, the BMW specialist seems to know his 'M' egines and will carry out valve adjustments as part of service. He said the job could be done in the same day if the car was dropped off first thing allowing engine to cool down and if necessary using compressed air to aid the process to get the temp below 20 degrees Centigrade.

Perhaps this is how some dealerships do the job on the same day??

I guess so, and also if you've got low ambient temperatures (e.g. in winter) you'd cool the car quicker anyway - but you'd have to have it sat in one place all the time otherwise the moving from the forecourt to the bays would reset the clock. Maybe they could do it in a cold-room too :wink: