igeak691, I have 2007 M Roadster and insurance for 1 year is costing me just over $600 with my clean driving record. Any M you would purchase at this point will be out of warranty. Find a good independent for service by asking around within the local BMWCCA community and you can save quite a bit on money on service. I just had Inspection II done for $700 which I believe is the most expensive service that authorized dealers charge over $1,200 for.
Convince me to upgrade from 3.0i to the M!
- Thread starter igeak691
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agreed^^
acid test
Stevo
acid test
Stevo
buzyg said:igeak691 said:Wow this thread blew up. Thanks for all the differing opinions. After more thought, I have decided since I really can't afford it, I'm not going to. I love my z and there's always a yearning for more, but you guys are right in that a z4mc might/should be out of my league right now.
One day...
Sorted.
Now go find some chicks. Most won't know the difference.
Hahaha
igeak691 said:Wow this thread blew up. Thanks for all the differing opinions. After more thought, I have decided since I really can't afford it, I'm not going to. I love my z and there's always a yearning for more, but you guys are right in that a z4mc might/should be out of my league right now.
One day...
Hi
Yesterday i took look for your youtube videos. Subscribed..
Good videos and i totally agree with some points about Z4. I had also that same kind of problem which car i choose (which roadster).. and ended up Z4.
But for original question, keep that 3.0i. Normal 3.0i with M54 engine is so much cheaper and simpler to maintenance compared to ///M versions. Thats why in my garage is normal 2.5i Z4 instead of ///M.
When you are working as doctor in full time you can afford that car you want. I do recommend for you Boxster S 987. Go for testdrive. In my opinion suspension was more comfortable than Z4, and quality feel was from another planet.
The M is completely on another level, get one while you can.
I never drove an M for a few years, after having been disappointed with the 3ltr, 3.0Si and even Alpina Zeds. Coming from a 911 background probably didn't help, but the lack of involvement, steering feel, throttle response etc, was disappointing.
I drove a ropey Z4M (there are plenty out there..), but was hooked. It's really on another planet, both in handling (stiffness of the chassis comparing Roadsters), steering and of course that wonderful engine.
I nearly chopped it in for a 997 GT3 Mk1 a few years ago, but prefer the usability of the zed. The S54 really is on the same level though.
On the same dyno:
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D786_785_783%26sort%3Drec%26but_sea%3Dqs%26sea_simple%3Dz4/index.htm
I never drove an M for a few years, after having been disappointed with the 3ltr, 3.0Si and even Alpina Zeds. Coming from a 911 background probably didn't help, but the lack of involvement, steering feel, throttle response etc, was disappointing.
I drove a ropey Z4M (there are plenty out there..), but was hooked. It's really on another planet, both in handling (stiffness of the chassis comparing Roadsters), steering and of course that wonderful engine.
I nearly chopped it in for a 997 GT3 Mk1 a few years ago, but prefer the usability of the zed. The S54 really is on the same level though.
On the same dyno:
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D786_785_783%26sort%3Drec%26but_sea%3Dqs%26sea_simple%3Dz4/index.htm
Test drive a 987 S as well. Your M54 car is dynamically a little less than an Z4M but with a little investment it can be better than the Z4M. BMW is nowhere near Porsche in dynamic terms and steering is a whole new league on the Boxster. Brakes as standard are also much better in feel and consistency.
My ownership in the last few years went something like - 335i, M3, 130i, 550i, Z4 and then I realised I was only considering cars from the BMW range, I'd developed badge snobbery without even trying the competition. Test drove a 981 Boxster and couldn't believe how good it was. Traded the 550i for an RS6 and now selling to M3 for a GTR. The Z4 still does the job of being a great small/fun daily. BMW are good but there are other manufacturers that make great cars also.
My ownership in the last few years went something like - 335i, M3, 130i, 550i, Z4 and then I realised I was only considering cars from the BMW range, I'd developed badge snobbery without even trying the competition. Test drove a 981 Boxster and couldn't believe how good it was. Traded the 550i for an RS6 and now selling to M3 for a GTR. The Z4 still does the job of being a great small/fun daily. BMW are good but there are other manufacturers that make great cars also.
I mainly agree with your points here , all except when you say a "little" investment into a standard z4 will make it better than a z4M. I don't think so! Where do you start to get it feeling close ... Engine, brakes, suspension, LSD, engine, exterior changes, interior touches, hydraulic steering, engineBabw said:
-Tom- said:I mainly agree with your points here , all except when you say a "little" investment into a standard z4 will make it better than a z4M. I don't think so! Where do you start to get it feeling close ... Engine, brakes, suspension, LSD, engine, exterior changes, interior touches, hydraulic steering, engineBabw said:
ok fair enough. I have gone with new electric steering column (not needed if you have a fully functional steering column), Ksport 356mm 330mm rear kit, AST 4100 fully setup and a Drexler LSD with 4.1 gears to be fitted. Currently Pilot Super Sports for wet weather which are much less fun + understeery than R888 for summer. I think my car cost me 7.5K and I have maybe spent another 5K on mods but I have gone way over and above what's needed. The brakes with decent pads and maybe hoses for feel are no worse than M brakes. My Z4 now brakes 10x better than my M3. I was planning an ESS supercharger but when the GTR arrives the straight line performance of a non supercharged v supercharged Z4 will pale into insignificance. The steering is a funny one because when I went from a 335i to an E46 M3 and I also owned a 550i + 130i at the same time. I thought my E46 M3 steering was broken, took it to BMW, Specialists insisting my steering is broken. Until at Simpson motorsport I drove another E46 M3 and Z4M then I realised that actually my steering is fine but I actually preferred the BMW electric steering. When I got the Z4 it was deja vu, steering broken again but this time drove a friends late E85 and it was confirmed my steering wasn't as it should be. New EPS system and the steering feels far better than my M3. I understand this is obviously a personal preference but the ability to increase the weight at the touch of a button + for the EPS to tune out mechanical slop as any mecho-hydraulic system deteriorates over time is fantastic on a road car.
Getting the steering fixed in the Z4 was the nail in the coffin for the M3, yes at higher speeds the S54 factor does matter. It pulls harder but my M54 with a carbon airbox sounds sweeter at legal speeds. I've never driven a Z4M in anger but the E85 achilles heel is the light feeling front end at high speed which provide more fun at lower speeds. To me any Z4 due to it's slightly quirky handling characteristics and short wheelbase won't inspire confidence at the ring/high speed driving compared to something like an M3 but again I'm not a race car driver.
For me the Boxster out does the Z4M at being an M car, according to BMW the whole point of a modern M car is the ability to be a daily car while being able to go on track and deliver dynamically. The Boxster handles better, steers better and brakes better. The engine is on par with the S54 and it has a better ride, interior and build quality.
5k well spent, your zed sounds top. But that's all I was meaning by it; it isn't a small investment relative to the price of the car and so you'd have to enjoy modding to consider doing that over changing cars altogether if that's the kind of performance / improvements you're looking for.
Yes, my 3.0si was way better in normal driving conditions, in fact I miss it a lot for that! But that's why my z has ended up being for weekend driving rather than when I'm tired and half asleep and grumpy during the week.
The boxster s vs Z4m is a good heated one. My friend has the 987 s , and the two are cars are like chalk and cheese. They're about the same price, but I preferred my Z4MC in every way apart from the badge. The 981 however ... I think they look amazing! I haven't been in one though :-(
(Btw, about the steering! I do find the hydraulic steering a complete pig in town and in manoeuvres - really heavy!!!)
Yes, my 3.0si was way better in normal driving conditions, in fact I miss it a lot for that! But that's why my z has ended up being for weekend driving rather than when I'm tired and half asleep and grumpy during the week.
The boxster s vs Z4m is a good heated one. My friend has the 987 s , and the two are cars are like chalk and cheese. They're about the same price, but I preferred my Z4MC in every way apart from the badge. The 981 however ... I think they look amazing! I haven't been in one though :-(
(Btw, about the steering! I do find the hydraulic steering a complete pig in town and in manoeuvres - really heavy!!!)
A 987 is a good car.... And like all Boxsters the handling/steering is superb...Brakes are brilliant on both cars..
Its the rest of the package that i dont like...Along with that feeling every morning when you turn the key,you know the one that makes you think"is this engine gonna let go today ? "...
Its the rest of the package that i dont like...Along with that feeling every morning when you turn the key,you know the one that makes you think"is this engine gonna let go today ? "...
Comparing the electric z4 steering to the ///M hydraulic setup is also laughable.... The steering and steering feel on the z4m is god damn nice. It didn't beat the boxster in numerous tests for no reason......
And that s54.... well its a a legend in its own right, still to this day the new boxster/cayman GTS models are only just at the 340hp range. A modded z4 will be a really nice car, but imagine if you'd picked up a cheap ///M and spend the money modding that, you'd be in a different league of performance.
And that s54.... well its a a legend in its own right, still to this day the new boxster/cayman GTS models are only just at the 340hp range. A modded z4 will be a really nice car, but imagine if you'd picked up a cheap ///M and spend the money modding that, you'd be in a different league of performance.
Well I'm happy to agree that steering feel is totally subjective and I personally prefer the electric feel for a road car.
What's the difference between a hydraulic and the mighty ///M hydraulic?
All I feel in the Z4M is that the extra power is great if you find sitting on a dual carriageway watching the speedo go around in your 2 seater sports car but a Z4 struggles to use the 230 bhp effectively due to inherent design characteristics such as the lazy suspension, sitting over the rear wheels and short wheelbase. To me a 2 seater sports car is for throwing around some corners quickly, having more power would mean I'd just be doing the initial understeer with snap oversteer even quicker.
I'm more aligned with Porsche way of thinking to build a great package than BMW who put outstanding engines in average cars to occasionally create poorly balanced/overpowered cars (E60 M5 is the first to mind). I'm sure Porsche could easily create a very high maintenance/poor economy 400hp car to go in a Boxster but they seem to build car to serve a purpose and then put an engine to serve that purpose.
Regarding the S54 I can understands why many owners get sentimental about it but the game has moved on. S65 was a step up and now the S55 is another big step up. I'm sure people will moan it has turbos but an S54 is now 15+ years old, I personally felt the throttle response of the S55 was better mostly because when you do press the throttle you get so much bloody thrust compared to an S54/S65. Again my thinking is that I buy a performance BMW to go fast, I find it difficult to use sentimental descriptions of a BMW never mind how much of a legendary status it may have amongst the followers. (If the S54 is a legend, the V10 TT in our RS6 is a god.)
The CSL - I remember when my mum went to buy a new M3 convertible in 2004 there were a few CSL's heavily discounted they just couldn't get rid of. The journos gave it bad press/overpriced/pointless etc and now 10 years later it's this folk legend with some magical qualities which can't quite be explained objectively but subjectively it's unbeatable, a classic, never surpassed.
My point in the original post regarding the Porsche was that you'd be silly to buy an Z4M without even driving a Boxster S (and whatever else you may feel is competition). For me objectively a Boxster is a better car but if subjectively the Z4M is this dream you've had and it gives you warm fuzzy feelings inside and you deem that to be better than objective qualities of the Boxster then Z4M it is for you.
What's the difference between a hydraulic and the mighty ///M hydraulic?
All I feel in the Z4M is that the extra power is great if you find sitting on a dual carriageway watching the speedo go around in your 2 seater sports car but a Z4 struggles to use the 230 bhp effectively due to inherent design characteristics such as the lazy suspension, sitting over the rear wheels and short wheelbase. To me a 2 seater sports car is for throwing around some corners quickly, having more power would mean I'd just be doing the initial understeer with snap oversteer even quicker.
I'm more aligned with Porsche way of thinking to build a great package than BMW who put outstanding engines in average cars to occasionally create poorly balanced/overpowered cars (E60 M5 is the first to mind). I'm sure Porsche could easily create a very high maintenance/poor economy 400hp car to go in a Boxster but they seem to build car to serve a purpose and then put an engine to serve that purpose.
Regarding the S54 I can understands why many owners get sentimental about it but the game has moved on. S65 was a step up and now the S55 is another big step up. I'm sure people will moan it has turbos but an S54 is now 15+ years old, I personally felt the throttle response of the S55 was better mostly because when you do press the throttle you get so much bloody thrust compared to an S54/S65. Again my thinking is that I buy a performance BMW to go fast, I find it difficult to use sentimental descriptions of a BMW never mind how much of a legendary status it may have amongst the followers. (If the S54 is a legend, the V10 TT in our RS6 is a god.)
The CSL - I remember when my mum went to buy a new M3 convertible in 2004 there were a few CSL's heavily discounted they just couldn't get rid of. The journos gave it bad press/overpriced/pointless etc and now 10 years later it's this folk legend with some magical qualities which can't quite be explained objectively but subjectively it's unbeatable, a classic, never surpassed.
My point in the original post regarding the Porsche was that you'd be silly to buy an Z4M without even driving a Boxster S (and whatever else you may feel is competition). For me objectively a Boxster is a better car but if subjectively the Z4M is this dream you've had and it gives you warm fuzzy feelings inside and you deem that to be better than objective qualities of the Boxster then Z4M it is for you.
