Condensation in E89 lights
- Thread starter strugglinauthor
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strugglinauthor
Member
I'm planning to take mine for an assessment at the dealer. The fogging in the front lights comes and goes and I'm happy that that's in line with what the owners manual predicts. But the rear light, particularly the indicator section, is covered in water droplets and they've been there since I made the original post. We'll see what the dealer says...
Maniac said:
Im intrigued by the sealing kit and what it consists of?
Although im not an E89 owner (I have an E85) I am having terrible problems with misting at the front lights (drivers side in particular) and have tried many solutions over the last few weeks, inc new back cover (better seal than the old one) but still no joy!
Strange that this has still not been resolved in the lastest model and more to the point very bad! :thumbsdown:
Not sure of the light construction on the E89 (in particular the rear covers) but some of what I / others have posted may be of help to or of interest to you lot?? - its tagged on near the end of an older post that I resurrected!
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15967
The problem with sealing a unit is that it only needs an airline gap for moisture to enter. Company i worked for manufactured equipment for road crossings. Eventhough the faceplates had rubber seals around them to keep the damp out, condensation still formed because the constant warming and cooling acted as a pump sucking moisture in, which would then collect inside. As the beads of water were now to large to exit, or trapped at the bottom of the unit, the inside electronics would corrode.
The mind boggles that the designers have taken the easy (cheap) way out, instead of properly designing a sealed unit. Even if the moisture evaporates, we would still see mildew forming sooner or later, what better greenhouse, damp, warm and light!
The mind boggles that the designers have taken the easy (cheap) way out, instead of properly designing a sealed unit. Even if the moisture evaporates, we would still see mildew forming sooner or later, what better greenhouse, damp, warm and light!
Don't think the rears will ever get warm by heat of bulbs as the running lights/turns are leds. If snowed in the next few days, i will remove them and dry them out. Having had a closer look at the rears they look as though they are 'double glazed, at least the top and bottom parts appear to have a double skin with the moisture trapped in between.
I discovered this on my rears just before warranty expired - took into BMW and they said it would be covered by warranty but I needed to book in for them to confirm. I never got around to it and summer came and went and now I'm getting condensation again. Probably not much chance of BMW honouring a goodwill claim so all I do now is open up and remove the bulbs and then blow warm air through a hair dryer. It sorts the problem for a few weeks, and the problem goes away in the warmer weather anyway. So I've learned to live with it....
Now i have taken the right rear off i think i can see what the problem is.
Firstly any run off water from around the the boot lid runs into channels in the normal fashion, but rather than running over the tails lights to drain away, they drain through a gap, over the rear of the tail units, within the body work.
The back of the unit has a clip on moulded cover with an open cell foam rubber seal let in a groove. The water from the boot channel runs over this assembly, the rubber seal soaks up the water, probably by capillary action now drains into the lens side of unit. The lens eventually dries out because it is vented to the interior of the boot.
http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=3485338&ukey_assembly=258307&ukey_make=979&ukey_model=0&ukey_driveline=6472&ukey_trimlevel=0&modelYear=2009
Shown as item 5 is the seal, the plastic moulding is the part that looks like a pair of goggles.
The BMW mod is probably to replace that seal.
I'm just going to dry out the seal, soak it in with silicone sealant and see if it improves the situation.
Seen this before, theres no excuse for using that type of foam seal.
Having said that the tail units were made in Italy.
Was going to take mine into dealer, but they seemed more interested in trying to sell me pre end warranty check for £35!
Firstly any run off water from around the the boot lid runs into channels in the normal fashion, but rather than running over the tails lights to drain away, they drain through a gap, over the rear of the tail units, within the body work.
The back of the unit has a clip on moulded cover with an open cell foam rubber seal let in a groove. The water from the boot channel runs over this assembly, the rubber seal soaks up the water, probably by capillary action now drains into the lens side of unit. The lens eventually dries out because it is vented to the interior of the boot.
http://parts.bmwofsouthatlanta.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=3485338&ukey_assembly=258307&ukey_make=979&ukey_model=0&ukey_driveline=6472&ukey_trimlevel=0&modelYear=2009
Shown as item 5 is the seal, the plastic moulding is the part that looks like a pair of goggles.
The BMW mod is probably to replace that seal.
I'm just going to dry out the seal, soak it in with silicone sealant and see if it improves the situation.
Seen this before, theres no excuse for using that type of foam seal.
Having said that the tail units were made in Italy.
Was going to take mine into dealer, but they seemed more interested in trying to sell me pre end warranty check for £35!
This shows the problem area. Water running off the black plastic, top right of pic, drips onto the plastic cover that is clipped on to back of the tail lamp housing. The rubber seal is between the body and clip on housing.It is supposed to stop water getting into lense housing, but when seals were removed, they were soaked with water.
Also some clips were broken reducing the clamping load.
Also remember not to leave any damp objects in the boot, such as umbrellas, as the tail lights are vented into the boot.
Also forgot to mention , when the condensation was at its worst, the turn indicator would faulter, giving rapid flashes to front and side and very dim rear, with intermittent 'rear left indicator fail' warning on idrive.
Update 5/2/13; sealing with silicon has cured the problem!
Also forgot to mention , when the condensation was at its worst, the turn indicator would faulter, giving rapid flashes to front and side and very dim rear, with intermittent 'rear left indicator fail' warning on idrive.
Update 5/2/13; sealing with silicon has cured the problem!
strugglinauthor
Member
Vidge said:Looks like i have joined this little party!
61 plate and offside rear inticator is full of beads of water.
cars going in for a service next week so will prime them to order a new rear light!
Irritating, I know. Still, at least you're well within warranty so this time round it'll be a freebie. Hope to get mine booked in for early March.
Well thought i had cured mine, but this evening saw a couple of trickles of water running down the inside of the right tail light.
Had the security upgrade last week and mentioned the problem to the service guy.
Basically because i'm over the three year warranty nothing they can do. But what would they do, replace with another faulty unit if the design hasn't changed.
I told em its a design flaw and should have all been called back and fixed.
Its just a ridiculus design. Every other car i've had has always had a one piece tail light assembly with rubber seals around the bulb holders to keep them air tight. Even the bulb holders are rubbish, if you are not careful the bulbs can fall out of the holders, requiring the removal of the lamp assembly to fish out the bulb.
This is my first (and probably last) BMW, i expected a more sorted design, just goes to show. Just spoils the enjoyment of the car, after all thats what these cars are for, certainly not practical.
Had the security upgrade last week and mentioned the problem to the service guy.
Basically because i'm over the three year warranty nothing they can do. But what would they do, replace with another faulty unit if the design hasn't changed.
I told em its a design flaw and should have all been called back and fixed.
Its just a ridiculus design. Every other car i've had has always had a one piece tail light assembly with rubber seals around the bulb holders to keep them air tight. Even the bulb holders are rubbish, if you are not careful the bulbs can fall out of the holders, requiring the removal of the lamp assembly to fish out the bulb.
This is my first (and probably last) BMW, i expected a more sorted design, just goes to show. Just spoils the enjoyment of the car, after all thats what these cars are for, certainly not practical.
strugglinauthor
Member
Very annoying, Bob, especially after all the effort you put in. I'm not sure if the niggly problems we encounter are indicative of all BMWs or whether they are Z4 (or E89) specific. Wouldn't know myself as this is the first one I've bought.