Buying used kit car - pros and cons

[A320_phill]

Wondered what your thoughts are on buying a used kit car?

I know a few people on here are owners (after doing a forum search on kit cars)

The fun for me would be receiving a brand new full kit, and building the car from scratch such as a Westfield or Caterham. Plus they seem to hold their value quite well. The obvious problem being the high price tag initially!

There are quite a few cheaper options such as a used MK Indy, Tiger, and also for a bit more dosh a used Westfield. My concerns are that a) the car is already built, and I would want to strip and rebuild for something to do which could be a can of worms if you don't know where various parts were sourced from and b) you don't know how well it was built in the first place.

Do you think it's worth splashing out (with finance) on a new kit and enjoying the process and nice shiny bits with full telephone support if required, or saving a hell of a lot of money and doing a sort of restoration project if you like (which could also end up being a money pit) but could also be enjoyable.

If anyone has any experience of either option, good or bad, your input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[exdos]

I've never built a new kit car or bought a used one, but I've been tempted to take on such a project for a long time. What puts me off is that apparently 90% of people who embark on these projects never actually finish them, and I'm afraid that I might join them. I think to reduce that risk, you'd be better buying a new kit where all the parts are supplied by the same manufacturer/seller and that you can possibly buy the necessary parts in several stages as the build progresses.

I think that you also need to consider whether the enjoyment of owning a kit car will come from building and maintaining the car or from driving it. A fully working kit car will always be a better prospect than an unfinished one. Finally would you consider a kit car on a "Q" plate?

 

[A320_phill]

I know what you mean regarding not finishing the kit. I am sure everyone who looks at the 90% of people who do not complete, think to themselves "oh but I would definitely finish mine". This includes me, but having never done it before I don't know how the build would go and what problems I may face.

The enjoyment for me initially would come from the build as I am an engineer and love all things mechanical, especially cars. I think I would also love driving the car but I am also concerned about the driving being so good that it will make the Coupe seem dull!

I think I might join a kit car specific forum and scout around as I am sure this topic must have been covered somewhere else.

Another option which is cheaper, would be a donor car. But again I can foresee many a problem there!

 

[danmiddle2]

I've (helped) build a couple with friends over the years. I wouldn't want to buy used, unless I knew the person who had built it. You'll never know what corners they may have cut, things they didn't get quite right.

Right now, I'd be tempted with a kit like the MEV Exocet. More like a DIY Ariel Atom, than a traditional seven-esque car.

My friend has built one, and it is fantastic! It was a relatively easy build as I understand it, too.

 

[GreyZed]

I have owned 3 kitcars all of which I bought second hand. The first was a GTM Coupe which I bought '90% complete'. The second was a GTM Rossa II and the third a Covin Turbo Cabriolet.

All 3 were great fun in their own ways but the best advice I would give anyone considering a second hand kit car would be to avoid the 'part built' brigade unless you really want to take it back to component form and start again (can be cheaper than new kit purchase if this is what you want to do). Most kit car projects stall for one main reason - people are usually good at one thing or maybe two but to build a whole car well you need to be good at more than just mechanical stuff. There is the electrical, bodywork, trimming, painting and the overall planning and scheduling to do everything in the correct order to prevent re-work. If you have the cash ready to out-source the bits you can't do yourself then great but many people don't and hence projects stall when they hit a task that is outside of their comfort zone (or worse still they bodge it anyway).

My first kit car ended up being a complete re-build even though it was running and (almost) driveable. Everything had been done wrong from ride height to offsets/camber/castor etc. etc. and the engine used more oil than petrol due to a terrible re-build that apparently oversized the bores then fitted standard rings to standard pistons.

The second 2 purchases were very different however as I made sure I chose fully registered cars that had been in daily use at some point and had repeated MOT passes.

7 esque cars are far less complex builds than the kit cars mentioned above as they seldom require welding or any serious bodywork fettling. I wouldn't be too put off by the second hand kit car market as long as you are a reasonably competent home mechanic, do your research and choose wisely. A lot of fun to be had in the world of kit cars.

 

[danmiddle2]

7 esque cars are far less complex builds than the kit cars mentioned above as they seldom require welding or any serious bodywork fettling. I wouldn't be too put off by the second hand kit car market as long as you are a reasonably competent home mechanic, do your research and choose wisely. A lot of fun to be had in the world of kit cars.

As I undertstand it the quality of the 7 clone kits are very variable. Where a Caterham kit will bolt together without issues, and come with comprehensive instructions... the cheaper clone kits are not always as simple. I've heard the Tiger kits are pretty good compromise for budget / quality.

I have somewhere a copy of Ron Champions book "Build youself a sports car for £250". £250 may be a bit optimistic these days, but a lot of the same things will apply.

The MEV is designed to be a really easy build, too. There is a nice build diary here:
pt 1 http://quantumforum.proboards.com/thread/315/mev-exocet-lightweight-build?page=1
pt 2 http://quantumforum.proboards.com/thread/400/mev-exocet-build-continued

You could even make an MX150R for which there is a ready made race series!

 

[Jaw]

I envy the car possibilities you guys have, so lucky.. The Australian government hates the kit car and it has nothing to do with safety..

The added costs bumps the caterham for example into luxury car tax terretory.. meaning that to get one on the road here costs upwards of 80k and you'll be boned if you try and build one and get it on the road 1988 and older models go for $40k

 

[domsz4]

you can buy a caterham as a kit but tbh its not really as kit as a the others. most are bought fully built and for what they are they are eye wateringly expensive. westfields are generally considered to be the best alternative although that accolade is becoming less as the other marques are getting better. tigers are fine too but a bit agricultural in their chassis compared to a westfield.

buying 2nd hand is no biggie if you buy carefully. my advice would be to join the WSCC or equivalent club and buy an ex club members car. Age/milage/and number plate are not your concern. its more build quality and whats on it. A Q plate car may only be a year old. mine is on a K plate but is not a 1990 car. there are a list of things with each to look out for which again you will be able to find out by talking to club members.

in the westfield world the pricing is sort of governed by the engine in it. older=cheaper in most cases unless its a specialist engine. so a zetec car would be cheaper than duratec. the V8/bike ones are in a bit of their own place. older engines such as CVH/pinto engines will be a bit cheaper.

a lot of the components on them will be off the shelf but performance orientated. my standard shocks are from GAZ and are height and bump adjustable, induction is from indipendant throttle bodies and the ecu is from omex.

one other thing to remember is these cars in many cases get alot of attention bits get uprated and checked alot. mine was rewired over winter as i didnt like the way it was (it was untidy). . so again age is not so much of a problem. i would be more concerned with a car that was 6 months old and looked immaculate that the seller had no idea about over a 10yr old car with the associated scrtatches where the seller can tell you its history.i know every bolt and every riv nut in my car and can tell you, almost to the month/year, when stuff was replaced and how it goes together why i did it that way, how i did it first and changed it to improve it.

the most important thing i would say if your thinking of getting a 7 is get out in one. they vary so much and are a real buz but you have to want it. its more than a soft top and they have no creature comfort or safety. driving the Z after being in the westy is a bit like getting into a warm ball of fuzzy cotton wool. flip side is i drove the westy after the winter layup in the same way i drive the Z and ended up sideways in the outside lane of the m6. all i did was drop into 3rd at 70 and floor it as i moved from inside to middle lane.....

 

[A320_phill]

Some great replies here!

My mind is still not made up but some very helpful info to take on board. Im certainly swaying towards used but shopping around for a well built model and giving it a good going over.

I like the look of the MEV Exocet. The problem is the space for the donor, my daily driver plus the kit car build! I have seen that mx5 heaven do donor kits with a warranty for kit car builds. Anyone had any experience with them?

 

[domsz4]

i think a few westy owners have. the lastest sdv (single donor vehicle) kit from westfield uses the mx5. they used to do the sierra which is the route i went sort of.

when i looked really the only decent choices IMHO were westfield and tiger. the westfield getlcoat bodywork was by far the best quality. i bought just the first stage kit that got me the chassis, basic bodywork, and all the machining needed to adapt the few sierra bits. the rest of the car i sourced away from WF and saved a bomb. by far the biggest cost to me was the induction system. i cheekily registered the zetec engine i used onto the sierra so it appeared on its V5 and then went from there.

the mazda sdv from what i know uses much more or the donor car. what i was able to do tho was sell the sierra bits that was left over and it paid for all of my tools! i built mine in a single prefab concrete garage.

if you wanted an insane car there is one kit that uses the m3 engine.... its a big old lump and they have had to make the car really badly proportioned to fit it in but it goes like s**t off a stick.

my car is a bit podgy at 650 ish kg and is only 180bhp but is still reasonably quick

 

[sk93]

I built and own an MK Indy and love it.
I'd have no quarms buying a second hand one, if the guy I'm buying from was the person who built it, and he was able to have a detailed and "excited" talk about the build process..

however, if you build it up yourself, that's where the real pride and fun comes into it.
They are ace to blast around the back roads or on a track, but knowing you put it together and having the knowledge of how it's put together is really useful. During the build process, you'll try different things, you'll customise it the way YOU want it, and you'll make mistakes.
And that's the fun part of it, because those mistakes may stay for a while, until the next year when you take it off the road over the winter and spend a few months completely redesigning the intake manifold...
or you go to a car show and see someone with a sequential box and decide you want to convert yours to that..

You can of course do all of that with a "pre-made" one (either second hand, or factory built), but I doubt its as MUCH fun.. and you will definately have an interesting time trying to figure out what part came from what car if it's second hand - cos I really doubt the builder recorded it down someplace (I sure as s**t didn't )

 

[sk93]

just some obligatory pics

 

[cj10jeeper]

Never built a kit car but turned a scrap Jeep into a full blown off roader and love it. Never underestimate how many mistakes and how much it will really cost, but knowing every bolt on you car is invaluable.


Before buying a kit is spend a day at one if the big kit shows. All the manufacturers and suppliers to the sector are there, so you can get huge amounts if info and advice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gwatson]

I've owned a new Tiger (professionally built) and a 1 year old Zetec Westfield, so never had the pleasure of building one from scratch. But both got dismantled and put back together on numerous occasions. As others have said, don't let a pre-built one put you off, but be prepared to get stuck in to fix any niggles or putting your own touch on it.

Once I'm bored of the ///M, my dream is to build a new Caterham R400 or Westfield Mega S2000 (Honda S2000 engine) or Duratec. Perhaps a 40th birthday present.

I will say one thing though, I wouldn't drive one on the road again without a helmet and full cage.

 

[andicole0]

My son is selling his very well built Pinto engined Dax Rush, the ad is on Pistonheads. http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/classi...odels/dax-rush-2009/2336470?isexperiment=true. It was built after I had completed my build of a Cobra replica and under my guidance. Fully SVA'd and never failed an MoT, tax and MoT last month I think.

Andi.

Wondered what your thoughts are on buying a used kit car?

I know a few people on here are owners (after doing a forum search on kit cars)

The fun for me would be receiving a brand new full kit, and building the car from scratch such as a Westfield or Caterham. Plus they seem to hold their value quite well. The obvious problem being the high price tag initially!

There are quite a few cheaper options such as a used MK Indy, Tiger, and also for a bit more dosh a used Westfield. My concerns are that a) the car is already built, and I would want to strip and rebuild for something to do which could be a can of worms if you don't know where various parts were sourced from and b) you don't know how well it was built in the first place.

Do you think it's worth splashing out (with finance) on a new kit and enjoying the process and nice shiny bits with full telephone support if required, or saving a hell of a lot of money and doing a sort of restoration project if you like (which could also end up being a money pit) but could also be enjoyable.

If anyone has any experience of either option, good or bad, your input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[exdos]

The V Storm looks interesting for a skeletal type car. Central driver seating position with ability to carry 2 passengers.

 

[domsz4]

a full cage on the road is a bit extreme if you ask me. if you doing mostly track work or racing then i can see the advantage. helmets are pointlessly uncomfortable if you have a screen. i've been hit with stones just as much in the z as i have in the westy and never hit at all when i had an aeroscreen.

i agree the standard wf roll bar is a bit too cosmetic and the braced bar is better for peace of mind. i think in all the years ive been in it ive only ever seen a couple roll over and that was during a race.

that dax looks nice but compared 10K will get you alot more bang for your buck in other marques.

 

[gwatson]

It's a personal choice of course. Perhaps I'm older and a little wiser now, but towards the end of my Westfield ownership I did start becoming a little anxious about the saftey and that was with always wearing a helmet. Ultimately I think this is what led to me selling the car, the wife wouldn't go in it any longer etc and now with two small kids......... I also no how many bugs my helmet had on it after a blast on a summer evening. I actually enjoyed the sense of occasion putting a helmet on gave.

For me, it's not so much the roll over protection, as I think the RAC bar would of been up to the job, but any side impact.

A new Caterham would be used on track and road, mostly road though.

 

[malibudave]

I bought a second hand Tiger Supercat. As other people have mentioned you need to make sure you do a proper inspection of the car so that you are fully aware of what you are getting. Even though its still a little like buying a house, its not until you have to start undoing other peoples DIY that you realize how incapable some are. That said if you have the time and enjoy getting your hands dirty they are great. I would have thought that there is less scope for cocking things up when building Caterhams since they are more modular.

I really miss mine....imo nothing (apart from maybe a bike) can give cheaper bangs for the buck. The amount of positive attention if received when in mine was unbelievable as well. Its wasnt uncommon for people on main roads stopping to let me in from a side road, or whilst on a drive coming up behind a slower car, them pulling over to let me past!

 

[GreyZed]

The amount of positive attention if received when in mine was unbelievable as well. Its wasnt uncommon for people on main roads stopping to let me in from a side road, or whilst on a drive coming up behind a slower car, them pulling over to let me past!

+1 when driving a kit car other road users view you as an enthusiast and most treat you with respect, when driving a Zed other motorists view you as a BMW driver and most treat you with contempt.