Buying a Z4M

[mr wilks]

12yr old & never had ins2 :? not exactly been pampered by its 2 owners as it

Doesn't the Z4M use a version of BMW's CBS (Condition Based Servicing) which is not mileage or time related, but on usage?

Whatever system it uses a possible 12 years without ins2 would be negligent imo for a S54 ( & if Bmw approved proof the system is fallible ) however it appears not the case in the car being discussed by op

 

[mmm-five]

Doesn't the Z4M use a version of BMW's CBS (Condition Based Servicing) which is not mileage or time related, but based on usage?

Sort of both.

It's an oil services every 2 year or 15,500 miles max.

The max mileage limit is based on using 500 gallons of fuel between services (15,500 \ 500 = 30.1mpg). I used to get 14,000 miles between SI warnings, but I left them at that schedule despite doing 2-3 times as many oil services as the schedule prescribes.

 

[exdos]

Sort of both.

It's an oil services every 2 year or 15,500 miles max.

The max mileage limit is based on using 500 gallons of fuel between services (15,500 \ 500 = 30.1mpg). I used to get 14,000 miles between SI warnings, but I left them at that schedule despite doing 2-3 times as many oil services as the schedule prescribes.

Tony,
My question was rhetorical. I have a dry garaged-kept 16 y-o low-mileage (36k) S54 Z3M, (which you have seen) fitted with a new engine in 2009, which has done very few miles for a number of years. I take the car out to warm it up properly and use all the switch gear etc. every few weeks. I change the brake fluid and oil every 2 years and maintain the car and keep all the hinges etc lubricated and keep the car in immaculate clean condition. The car is nowhere near an Inspection 2 on BMW's CBS so I'm intrigued to know why someone on this forum might think that I am a negligent owner? I can see absolutely no reason to check the valve clearances until the ECU informs me that Insp 2 is due.

 

[mr wilks]

Exdos

You may not be a negligent owner but if i or anyone who was considering buying your car didnt know you then all they have to go on is the cars documented history ( im sure you get that ) & call me paranoid but id be wary of a car even with uber low miles that had not had a ins2 for 12 years .
OK it may have covered low miles but it could have been cold started , moved out the garage , left ticking over then returned to garage twice a week for years . There are so many different connotations to what constitutes a "cherished" car , i personally wouldn't leave the same oil in for 2years no matter the miles covered , we all see things different & for the record i never mentioned valve clearances , ins2 is far more than just those

 

[exdos]

Mr Wilks,

I agree that low-mileage cars are not maintenance free, and if they're just left, they can be very problematic when put back into use. So that's why I keep using mine on a reasonably frequent basis giving it a 10mile run each time it goes out of the garage. I'm sure some owners of garage queens tend to forget their cars under a cover.

However, it's the low mileage cars that attract the highest prices, so if you wish to keep the car as genuine low-mileage, it stands to reason that it doesn't get much use! Likewise, when it comes to buying a low-mileage car, potential buyer's need to use their mechanical knowledge just as much as the paperwork, exactly the same as buyers of cars of high-mileage. I would say that someone choosing to buy a low-mileage S54 car would more than likely be an enthusiast and should know of the BMW CBS and therefore properly understand how it works.

 

[mr wilks]

Mr Wilks,

I agree that low-mileage cars are not maintenance free, and if they're just left, they can be very problematic when put back into use. So that's why I keep using mine on a reasonably frequent basis giving it a 10mile run each time it goes out of the garage. I'm sure some owners of garage queens tend to forget their cars under a cover.

However, it's the low mileage cars that attract the highest prices, so if you wish to keep the car as genuine low-mileage, it stands to reason that it doesn't get much use! Likewise, when it comes to buying a low-mileage car, potential buyer's need to use their mechanical knowledge just as much as the paperwork, exactly the same as buyers of cars of high-mileage. I would say that someone choosing to buy a low-mileage S54 car would more than likely be an enthusiast and should know of the BMW CBS and therefore properly understand how it works.

"properly understand how it works " cause Bmw service requirements are flawless aren't they 12k 14k 16k on same oil is acceptable
Many buyers are blinkered by mileage but f i was paying top dollar for a low miler id prefer to know the diff oil , gbox oil & plugs were nice & fresh & not been in there 9 , 10 , 11 years , but thats just me

 

[Darren Slone]

I thought you were after an imoa red coupe,didn’t realise you were a hairdresser,I couldn’t get a rag top in case me hair fell out,just look at my old mate DARREN ,he had lovely long hair. When I first met him,now look at him,poor sod,joking aside stick to wot you originally wanted

pmsl :lol:

 

[john-e89]

I thought you were after an imoa red coupe,didn’t realise you were a hairdresser,I couldn’t get a rag top in case me hair fell out,just look at my old mate DARREN ,he had lovely long hair. When I first met him,now look at him,poor sod,joking aside stick to wot you originally wanted

pmsl :lol:

I put that down to him being married Status like the rest of us....but then you’ve known him a lot longer than me....

 

[exdos]

"properly understand how it works " cause Bmw service requirements are flawless aren't they 12k 14k 16k on same oil is acceptable

So when you buy a BMW car with CBS, you will only buy a car which has been serviced in excess of the BMW servicing schedule?

Many buyers are blinkered by mileage but f i was paying top dollar for a low miler id prefer to know the diff oil , gbox oil & plugs were nice & fresh & not been in there 9 , 10 , 11 years , but thats just me

You consider spark plugs as perishables? Seriously, whenever I buy a new vehicle I go through it with a fine-tooth comb and check, clean, and replace as the condition of the parts dictate, but for my starting point, I will only buy a vehicle with well above average condition for its age, and my first impression of vehicles has always served me very well.

 

[mr wilks]

You consider spark plugs as perishables? Seriously, whenever I buy a new vehicle I go through it with a fine-tooth comb and check, clean, and replace as the condition of the parts dictate, but for my starting point, I will only buy a vehicle with well above average condition for its age, and my first impression of vehicles has always served me very well.

Going round in circles now :? I'm not interested in what you personally do to your own car / cars , i'm not a fan of self servicing
You may well be one of those "special" ones who like to tinker & maintain your own cars , i am not so therefore if i was looking for a car low miles or high miles i would not want to start going through it with a fine tooth comb , checking , cleaning & replacing parts i thought looked ropey , hence why i would look at the cars service record along with its current condition & mileage to then work out what would be a fair price to pay .
Now like it or not 99% of the car buying world see a stamped history of a car as the barometer for how its been treat by previous owner / owners & if i was considering a S54 that had gone 12 years without ins2 id say that was under serviced & be wary of a looming spend to get things up to scratch . That's my prerogative as is yours to do it your way
Have a good day

 

[R60BBA]

Well put Mr Wilks.

However I also understand Exodos’ point of view.

My tuppence worth:

I think the key here is that there is a difference between knowing that your car is tip top and proving that your car is tip top to a future buyer.

Exodos, an enthusiast may take your word when you explain to them how you’ve maintained the car in your ownership however a general buyer might be a bit more wary (purely because they’d more likely to be less clued up on BMW M cars).

Having a full service history with Inspection 1 and Inspection 2 done at the correct intervals and proof of this (i.e stamps in the book + receipts) should be a given on a BMW M car. Even the timing of the run-in service can affect an M car’s value, for example if done too late, both enthusiast and general buyer can be put off buy this and would probably walk away (even if the rest of the car was immaculate).

Having this work done isn’t terribly expensive either (considering you can afford a low mileage modern classic M sports car) and so I don’t see how you would lose out by choosing not to undertake an Inspection 2 until your trip computer told you to.

Don’t get me wrong, going off what you said I’m sure your car would sell at a good price, however having that Inspection 2 on there could widen your audience of potential buyers and subsequently see it go for more money.

 

[Simon 3.2M]

Well put Mr Wilks.

However I also understand Exodus’ point of view.

My tuppence worth:

I think the key here is that there is a difference between knowing that your car is tip top and proving that your car is tip top to a future buyer.

Exodus, an enthusiast may take your word when you explain to them how you’ve maintained the car in your ownership however a general buyer might be a bit more wary (purely because they’d more likely to be less clued up on BMW M cars).

Having a full service history with Inspection 1 and Inspection 2 done at the correct intervals and proof of this (i.e stamps in the book + receipts) should be a given on a BMW M car. Even the timing of the run-in service can affect an M car’s value, for example if done too late, both enthusiast and general buyer can be put off buy this and would probably walk away (even if the rest of the car was immaculate).

Having this work done isn’t terribly expensive either (considering you can afford a low mileage modern classic M sports car) and so I don’t see how you would lose out by choosing not to undertake an Inspection 2 until your trip computer told you to.

Don’t get me wrong, going off what you said I’m sure your car would sell at a good price, however having that Inspection 2 on there could widen your audience of potential buyers and subsequently see it go for more money.

My car recently had new bearing shells and the valve clearances done. I have put a new radiator and thermostat therefore along with the new oil, filter and rocker cover gasket has had a decent amount of work done. I will be changing the plugs and the diff and gear box oils because I'm "special" that way. I'm assuming (as I'm not an expert) that this little lot almost constitutes an inspection 2? So to keep the resale value and make the car attractive, should I get an inspection 2 done so the service book gets the stamp?

 

[R60BBA]

My car recently had new bearing shells and the valve clearances done. I have put a new radiator and thermostat therefore along with the new oil, filter and rocker cover gasket has had a decent amount of work done. I will be changing the plugs and the diff and gear box oils because I'm "special" that way. I'm assuming (as I'm not an expert) that this little lot almost constitutes an inspection 2? So to keep the resale value and make the car attractive, should I get an inspection 2 done so the service book gets the stamp?

Depends on when your last Inspection 2 was to be honest.

They should be done every 4 years in my opinion i.e:

Year 1 Oil Service
Year 2 Inspection 1
Year 3 Oil Service
Year 4 Inspection 2
Repeat

However I would accept a car which has gone say 6 years max without an Inspection 2.

Seeing as you have recently done oil, bottom end shells and shims and are looking to do plugs and transmission fluids, you might aswell get your garage to tick Inspection 2 in your book (after the latter work has been done).

 

[Simon 3.2M]

My car recently had new bearing shells and the valve clearances done. I have put a new radiator and thermostat therefore along with the new oil, filter and rocker cover gasket has had a decent amount of work done. I will be changing the plugs and the diff and gear box oils because I'm "special" that way. I'm assuming (as I'm not an expert) that this little lot almost constitutes an inspection 2? So to keep the resale value and make the car attractive, should I get an inspection 2 done so the service book gets the stamp?

Depends on when your last Inspection 2 was to be honest.

They should be done every 4 years in my opinion i.e:

Year 1 Oil Service
Year 2 Inspection 1
Year 3 Oil Service
Year 4 Inspection 2
Repeat

However I would accept a car which has gone say 6 years max without an Inspection 2.

Seeing as you have done oil, bottom end shells and shims and are looking to do plugs and transmission fluids you might aswell get your garage to tick Inspection 2 in your book.

I'm not sure they would do that without evidence or actually doing the work themselves.
For me I decided to "reset" my car so that I know where it is and how it's been driven so there's no ambiguity or guess work and should I come to sell them all work is documented with receipts for everything done.

 

[R60BBA]

My car recently had new bearing shells and the valve clearances done. I have put a new radiator and thermostat therefore along with the new oil, filter and rocker cover gasket has had a decent amount of work done. I will be changing the plugs and the diff and gear box oils because I'm "special" that way. I'm assuming (as I'm not an expert) that this little lot almost constitutes an inspection 2? So to keep the resale value and make the car attractive, should I get an inspection 2 done so the service book gets the stamp?

Depends on when your last Inspection 2 was to be honest.

They should be done every 4 years in my opinion i.e:

Year 1 Oil Service
Year 2 Inspection 1
Year 3 Oil Service
Year 4 Inspection 2
Repeat

However I would accept a car which has gone say 6 years max without an Inspection 2.

Seeing as you have done oil, bottom end shells and shims and are looking to do plugs and transmission fluids you might aswell get your garage to tick Inspection 2 in your book.

I'm not sure they would do that without evidence or actually doing the work themselves.
For me I decided to "reset" my car so that I know where it is and how it's been driven so there's no ambiguity or guess work and should I come to sell them all work is documented with receipts for everything done.

Hang on a min, did you DIY the work or did you get a garage to do it?

 

[Simon 3.2M]

Depends on when your last Inspection 2 was to be honest.

They should be done every 4 years in my opinion i.e:

Year 1 Oil Service
Year 2 Inspection 1
Year 3 Oil Service
Year 4 Inspection 2
Repeat

However I would accept a car which has gone say 6 years max without an Inspection 2.

Seeing as you have done oil, bottom end shells and shims and are looking to do plugs and transmission fluids you might aswell get your garage to tick Inspection 2 in your book.

I'm not sure they would do that without evidence or actually doing the work themselves.
For me I decided to "reset" my car so that I know where it is and how it's been driven so there's no ambiguity or guess work and should I come to sell them all work is documented with receipts for everything done.

Hang on a min, did you DIY the work or did you get a garage to do it?

The shells and valves were done by my Indy - why?

 

[exdos]

The Service Booklet (part number 01 41 0 012 738 en E85M E86M) is self-explanatory on the subject of servicing Z4Ms and below is an OCR scan of the booklet. It's clear that apart from oil and brake fluid being time limited to bi-annual changes, everything else is as per the ECU's analysis of the usage of the car.

____________________________

Maintenance
The BMW Maintenance
System
The BMW Maintenance System contributes
towards upholding the roadworthiness and
operating reliability of your BMW. It also covers
comfort and convenience aspects, such as
ensuring that filters for the air in the car's interior
are renewed in good time. Its purpose is to
optimise maintenance measures with a view to
minimising the cost of looking after your car.
If and when you come to sell your BMW, a comprehensive
record of maintenance will prove a
significant benefit.
Entries in Service Booklet
BMW recommends that you have maintenance
and repair work performed by BMW Service.
Make sure that any maintenance work performed
is recorded in the Service Booklet.
These entries are evidence that your car has
been serviced regularly and correctly.
Service Interval indicator
The Service Interval indicator tells you when an
Oil Service, an Inspection - always Inspection I
or 11 alternately - or a brake fluid change is necessary.
A special feature is that the servicing
intervals are not fixed distances, but take the
actual conditions in which your BMW has been
operated into consideration.
The technology it uses also takes your individual
driving style and your BMW's operating conditions
into account. This is because short-distance
driving, with many cold starts and the car
driven away at high engine speeds, imposes a
different type of load on your vehicle to longdistance
driving, when the engine is operating
at a consistent temperature for lengthy periods.
Running-in inspection at 2000 km,
approx. 1200 miles
The service interval display indicator does not
notify of the running-in check is due at
2000 kl1), approx. 1200 miles, see page 9.
Please remember to arrange a service appointment.
Special note on engine oil changes
Calculation of the Service interval covers
almost all operating situations. However, if you
drive only very low annual distances, you should
have the engine oil changed every two years at
the latest, since it ages regardless of the distance
the car has covered.
Body
Depending on the operating conditions, you
should have the bodywork examined for damage,
e.g. by stone strikes, when the car is left in
for its next due service, see also page 12.
Remaining distance
The distance remaining to the next routine
maintenance in km is displayed briefly immediately
after the engine has been started or the
ignition switched on.
The string OILSERVICE or INSPECTION shows
when the next service is due. The remaining
distance is calculated on the basis of the previous
driving performance.
Flashing signs and a minus sign in front of the numerical value
show that the service interval has been exceeded by the indicated
number of

kilometres. Please arrange an appointment with
BMW Service or a workshop whose personnel
has been trained according to BMW requirements.
The extent of Service work currently
required can be read out from the remote
control by your BMW Service Advisor .....
Changing brake fluid
You can call up the time in months and years to
the next due change of brake fluid.
Press the button when the next service due is
displayed.
Each time you press the button, the display will
switch over between due service date and due
date for brake fluid change.
As soon as brake fluid renewal is due, the clock
symbol also lights up. Please arrange an
appointment with BMW Service or a workshop
whose personnel has been trained according to
BMW requirements.

In the interests of safety and to keep your
car operational, have the appropriate
maintenance work performed without delay if
the remaining distance indicator shows a negative
value or is flashing or the dial symbol is constantly
illuminated .....
BMW recommends that you have maintenance
and repair work performed by BMW Service.
BMW Service is always in possession of the latest
maintenance and repair instructions and the
appropriate special tools. In addition, the maintenance
routines include checks on parts which
have been found to incur regular wear and tear
during operation of the vehicle.


Displays
Maintenance work is called for in the following
order, according to the way in which the car is
used:
"OIL SERVICE"
"INSPECTION"
Vehicle maintenance according to Inspection I
"OIL SERVICE"
"INSPECTION"
Vehicle maintenance according to Inspection 11.
If the clock symbol lights up, brake fluid renewal
is due.

~ If the car is laid up for any length of time
with its battery disconnected, the owner
must assume responsibility for changing the
brake fluid in good time - every two years.
The counter does not take such periods into
account - the brake fluid, however, continues to
age regardless of whether or not the car is in
service ..

 

[Bing]

My car had 24k on it when I bought it, 7 years old and had stamps for running in, oil and inspection 1. Probably didn’t have the inspection 2 until it was 9 years old, I don’t remember exactly. It had had the oil changed every two years. It needed 14 shims at inspection 2, I think because the valve clearances were not done at its first inspection 1. At its most recent inspection 1 it needed 3 shims. It has its oil changed by me halfway between each service and is now on 77k, running perfectly. I really don’t see how not having an inspection 2 for 11/12 years is a problem as long as it’s been otherwise maintained correctly. Parts don’t get worn or out of tolerance if it’s not being driven.

 

[R60BBA]

The shells and valves were done by my Indy - why?

Are you going to the same garage for the plugs and transmission fluids?

 

[exdos]

Parts don’t get worn or out of tolerance if it’s not being driven.

Exactly!