Brake upgrade with EBC pads and braided hoses - will this I improve the brakes significantly?

[nickw6666]

Hi all,

I've been enjoying my Z4M coupe for many years loving the handling and engine, but like many on this forum have found the OEM brakes whilst powerful, to lack pedal pressure, modulation and fade quickly when used hard.

Having driven a few Porsches recently and been impressed with their brakes, I'd like to improve mine but don't want to go as far as changing the OEM disks and calipers for a Big Brake Kit.

So I'm thinking of upgrading the pads, upgrading to braided stainless steel hoses, and changing the brake fluid if needed.

I've looked on the EBC website and notice they have introduced high quality braided hoses in conjunction to there well known brake pads.

So for £300 exclusive of fitting, I can buy EBC Yellow Stuff brake pads and braided hoses including fittings for both front and rear.

So my question (finally!) is, will the upgrade of pads, hoses and fluid make a significant difference to pedal firmness, modulation and fade free stopping power?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,

Nick

 

[nickw6666]

Here's the link to the EBC stainless steel brake hoses for the Z4M. https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/auto-brake-lines/bmw/z4/3.2-M-2006-2009/18000663

Nick...

 

[ga41]

While I haven't used Yellow Stuff before one of my first upgrades was braided brake lines and Stoptech Street Performance pads which I think is the Stoptech equivalent to Yellow Stuff. The brake feel and modulation was not all that different than stock... Endurance was better but actual feel not particularly different. :idunno:

 

[Beedub]

personally EBC is imo.... one of the worst brake manufacturers out their.... they are the dacia of the brake parts world, cheap and cheerful and will let you down at some point.....

 

[Joycey]

personally EBC is imo.... one of the worst brake manufacturers out their.... they are the dacia of the brake parts world, cheap and cheerful and will let you down at some point.....

Is this speaking from experience or just an opinion?

 

[Baza]

I recently changed my discs/pads/hoses and fluid. I spent a lot of time researching pads and looked at EBC but I found more negative comments on there quality than positive. As in life more people will complain rather than praise , so it may be a wrong conclusion . However in the end I went for ATE ceramic pads for the front and Pagid pads for the rear . As regards to hoses I went with Hella , The choice of off the shelf hoses for the E89 was very limited , I chose Hella because they had the same style grommets on the hose as OEM which meant that the hoses would fit into the brackets for correct positioning , I sent my original hoses to Hella who manufactured an exact copy. For fluid I chose ATE 200 which a lot of forum members recommend and has a higher boiling point and also gives 3 years between changing

Assuming discs are discs and the main influence on braking comes from pads hoses and fluid. Yes I have noticed a distinct improvement more positive initial bite and relatively no fade.

Cost wise excluding discs and fluid . for pads and hoses £225.00 inc vat

 

[Lower]

I wouldn't bother with the brake hoses personally. The standard ones are fibre reinforced and therefore don't balloon under pressure which is what braided hoses are intended to deal with.

The biggest bang for your buck will come from better pads and i would second not using EBC. You get increased braking performance from a higher coefficient of friction pad as it reduces pedal pressure for the same retardation. EBC pads are typically ECE R90 approved (which you need for the pads to be road legal) which means that their coefficient of friction is within 10% of what was originally supplied with the car. Other than improved resistance to heat and therefore fade, you won't notice the difference with that small a change in the friction coefficient. Most decent pads are theoretically for track use only but loads of people use them on the road. Ferodo DS2500 are a reasonably priced alternative to standard that work well from cold but can cause adhesion issues and juddering if used hard on track.

What ever pads you go for, unless they are a standard replacement, always change front and rear at the same time. Otherwise you will be changing the brake balance.

You will find that you have to pay a lot more than EBC prices for higher performing pads, but you get what you pay for with brake pads.

 

[mmm-five]

My brakes are probably not used as hard as beedub's, as his sprints can be quite hard on pads

However, I've not had any issues with the EBCs I've fitted to the M5s or the Z4M - although the 'lowest' spec I've ever used is Yellowstuff, then went to Bluestuff NDX and now onto the Orangestuff 'endurance' pad. I'd not recommend the Orangestuff for the road though as they need a bit of warming up. On the track they're great, and get better they hotter they get.

Have also happily used some Pagid RS29 pads - but have also managed to buy/fit the wrong type one (RS14/44 IIRC, which were WAY TOO soft) and the NSF pad disintegrated whilst braking hard into Hislops/Knickerbook...only after a morning/100 miles of an Oulton Park track day (and about 1000 miles of normal road use).

Considering the Orangestuff are £120 vs the £400 of the RS29, I don't feel they're particularly bad value.

 

[Vanne]

EBC is rubbish.. I'll never fit them again.. well I might to a shitbox, but def not to a performance bike/car. With brakes, you pretty much get what you pay for.

 

[nickw6666]

Interesting responses. Some criticism of EBC which is interesting. It can become a but like a religious debate I know when discussing various manufacturers but with regard to EBC my understanding is that 7-8 years ago they made a quantum leap in quality and redesigned many of their products. That said it would seem that it depends on what level of performance you want or are expecting.

I notice Silverstone Race Circuit uses Yellowstuff which they rate highly, and for me, I'm after a pad that isn't too aggressive on the discs in terms of friction, but most importantly, is much better for resistance to fade.

So Yellowstuff seems like a good compromise of better fade resistance and slightly better friction/bite than stock pads, but without the higher cost of the more aggressive pads such as Pagid etc.

I'm mainly road driving but with a few track days thrown in but I never run more than 5-6 laps including warm up and warn down laps to avoid overheating brakes and tyres too much etc.

Interesting that the standard pipes/hoses are fibre reinforced and that moving to braided hoses will not necessarily provide that much difference. I am looking for a firmer pedal so if changing the hoses won't make that much difference it probably make se sense for me to stay with sick hoses.

I'm thinking of EBC Yellowstuff pads and leaving everything else as is. I will check with BMW main dealer what fluid they put in at standard Brake Fluid service. I assume it's a DOT 4 but if I'm not tracking the car too hard it's possible that this will be enough with a pad change.

 

[Vanne]

Do yourself a favour and check some proper track /performance pads and some quality brake fluid. It will make a world of difference..

 

[abar121]

I've also had problems with some EBC pads on other vehicles. Some have been fine and apparently the Yellow stuff pads have been through quite a few compounds over the years, so pot luck really.

The standard pads are enough for road use with new fluid and OEM disks in good condition. They do grumble and feel disconcerting at times (compared to Porsche stuff in my experience), but are plenty for fast road use.

I would go to Performance friction pads and new fluid as an upgrade if needed.

 

[Lower]

I notice Silverstone Race Circuit uses Yellowstuff which they rate highly, and for me, I'm after a pad that isn't too aggressive on the discs in terms of friction, but most importantly, is much better for resistance to fade.

What cars are Silverstone race circuit using the yellowstuff on? Certain grades of pads work well in some cars and not in others so i wouldn't use that as a criteria for selecting a pad.

Ultimately, its your money. EBC pads are cheaper than other performance pads so if the upfront cost is significant to you then they might be a good option if they give you an improvement over what you have at the moment. You just won't get the dramatic improvement that some of the other pads can give you.

With regards to fluid, there is no need to upgrade from unless you are boiling the fluid or its not been changed as per the service schedule. A more frequent change can be of benefit if you're getting the brakes very hot on track, but racing fluid is more hygroscopic that standard Dot4 so will need changing more frequently.

 

[Paulwirral]

I've used yellows on a few cars and never had a problem , I'm definitely not the last of the late breakers though , I always thought they were fine .

 

[Beedub]

personally EBC is imo.... one of the worst brake manufacturers out their.... they are the dacia of the brake parts world, cheap and cheerful and will let you down at some point.....

Is this speaking from experience or just an opinion?

nah just talking after an internet search.

tested on numerous vehicle. cheap tat. imo of course. however will admit never tried them on my z4.

 

[RedUn]

Have a look at some carbotech pads and some motul rbf600 fluid. Lines is up to you, I'd change them just to refresh them and they aren't expensive

 

[pHilli0]

Hi all,

I've been enjoying my Z4M coupe for many years loving the handling and engine, but like many on this forum have found the OEM brakes whilst powerful, to lack pedal pressure, modulation and fade quickly when used hard.

Having driven a few Porsches recently and been impressed with their brakes, I'd like to improve mine but don't want to go as far as changing the OEM disks and calipers for a Big Brake Kit.

So I'm thinking of upgrading the pads, upgrading to braided stainless steel hoses, and changing the brake fluid if needed.

I've looked on the EBC website and notice they have introduced high quality braided hoses in conjunction to there well known brake pads.

So for £300 exclusive of fitting, I can buy EBC Yellow Stuff brake pads and braided hoses including fittings for both front and rear.

So my question (finally!) is, will the upgrade of pads, hoses and fluid make a significant difference to pedal firmness, modulation and fade free stopping power?

Any thoughts?

Many thanks,

Nick

Been there, done the yellow stuff, braided hoses, dot4 thing. It was a 15% improvement on track. On a heavy braking track they will still fade, just a bit later than before. As others have said, if you want to move up a class in braking you need to spend a good amount of cash to get there. The difference to a BBK is night and day.

 

[Argenta]

Tried the Yellowstuff's, Carbotech and PerformanceFriction pads on my old car, a 340bhp Fiat Coupe.
The Yellowstuff's were near dangerously bad, just crap compared to the others. Prob worse than OEM pads. Literally fell to bits after some hot laps.

Second the questioned need for braided hoses, they do little for pedal fell & nothing for performance.

My recipie;
1. Fresh DOT 5.1 fluid
2. Carbotech pads (good value)
3. Fully open cooling ducts (may do little but easy fix)

Important stuff, brakes!

 

[wspohn]

EBC had some issues with pad adhesion to backing plates. They say that is in the past and it does seem to be.

I use Redstuff for street and like it lot on one of my other cars - ceramic and low dust plus good fade resistance and excellent initial bite.

If you track the car, Yellowstuff probably wouldn't be enough; if you don't, it would be too much for street use.

 

[bmwaddict]

I've used red stuff on a few cars including my current one, great budget pad and I've never had any problems with them, although they do begin to fade after very hard use and would be useless on track. I may try yellows next time.