Boot Water Ingress - The journey of roof motors, hydro pump and seals

[bte123]

For the curious amongst us I took the cover off the old motor. Keeping in mind it has been around a week since I found and drained the aquarium in the boot, when I took the cover off a lot of water spilled out. So for anyone with ingress who is thinking of drying out the motor to see if that fixes the problem then you are probably wise to take the cover off, as clearly is good at holding the water in!!

keeping an eye on this thread - removed motor and cap and cover to see how bad my own experience with water damage is / was and it's not too bad. some definite corrosion on the outside but most of the mechanism inside looks ok.

any tips on cleaning methods for metal like this? i've got some wire wool brushes to get the abrasive material off but any suggestions for in essence a 'polish' or 'soap' for metal casing like this?

 

[Webless]

For anti corrosion I use ACF-50 as I have this for my motorbike and is highly rated.

 

[Webless]

Ok just left the guys at RBM Hampshire. The roof still cannot fully open and then won’t latch back down either. This means again the windows cannot be closed.

They suspect, as there are no fault codes coming up, the issue is a lack of power from the roof motor/pump. I have of course just replaced the motor with a refurb from RoofMotors but now it’s anyone’s guess.

The advice is to replace the motor and pump with a new one so taking the plunge. The guys are really busy but given I cannot put the windows up or latch the back down have offered to fit the replacement tomorrow.

Will keep you posted. If this does fix it then either the refurb motor just wasn’t up to the job or there is an issue with the pump itself - which I gather is rare.

Let’s see what tomorrow brings. Now for a train home ...

 

[RobbiZ4]

The roof still cannot fully open and then won’t latch back down either. This means again the windows cannot be closed.

Could you please explain this more precise, as every inch of it's movement is important for a diagnosis.
The windows are waiting on successfully completing all steps before, there is no issue to expect. And, I can't image a problem with the hydraulic part of the pump, as this system is completetely closed. With the new, refurbished motor as well as sufficient hydraulic fluid (already checked?), it should work as before.

 

[Webless]

Yes sure, topped up the fluid but it seemed ok and none was lost when the motor was replaced.

On pressing to open the roof the rear section lifts but slowly and only about half way, no other parts of the roof shell move.

Then returning to close it moves back down and makes some effort to latch but just doesn’t do it. Then of course the boot won’t open and the windows will not operate.

We did pop the boot open with the JBE command but nothing would make the windows move up. They do not have the special tool to manually lock the hatch back down.

So assuming for the moment there is not enough hydrologic pressure, either the motor or the pump or both still being the issue. Which is the same diagnosis as the dealership.

All through the operation no fault codes come up. Prior to the visit I had recharged the battery overnight so there shouldn’t be any issues with that. Also had a 70min drive getting there and tried roof whilst engine was running.

 

[RobbiZ4]

On pressing to open the roof the rear section lifts but slowly and only about half way, no other parts of the roof shell move.

That is the typically behaviour with a broken wire in the roof shell. But, that should throw a fault code (microswitch or hallsensor defective).
If that is no the case, the movement of the rear roof shell must be extremely slow, to get the CTM to stop the hydraulic pump.

The complete roof opening process takes about 20-23 seconds. The rear shell, as first step of the process, should be up in about 5 seconds. If it takes much longer if the pump is weak, the CTM may stop.

In general, the windows and the boot lid are waiting on a hydraulically locked roof (opened or closed). If it's anywhere in the middle between opened or closed, the red led flashes and these components are blocked.

 

[Webless]

Thanks again, I think the odds (although it’s possible) of a broken wire is unlikely as prior to the water ingress I had no problems and like you say if there was a micro switch problem then the code would come up for sure.

So my only guess at the moment is for some reason the hydros are too weak, my hunch based on your stats is the refurb motor is just not cutting it but I will soon see if replacing the pump and motor with a new one fixes everything. Of course its possible we then find the next issue.

Thanks for your advice in all this, really appreciated.

 

[enuff_zed]

Fully prepared to be dismissed by the guru :wink: ...
but given that it is moving too slowly, but not giving any error codes, is there any chance a hydraulic line could be kinked/restricted?

 

[RobbiZ4]

Fully prepared to be dismissed by the guru :wink: ...
but given that it is moving too slowly, but not giving any error codes, is there any chance a hydraulic line could be kinked/restricted?

Not from my understanding:
As all 3 groups of hydraulic rams operate semi synchron in this car, one single broken/kinked/restriced hydraulic hose would lead to an uneven movement of the lid, the roof shell or the roof package. You will see and identify this issue immediately.

 

[RobbiZ4]

So assuming for the moment there is not enough hydrologic pressure, ...

At first, lock the 2 "flippers" of the locking system in the boot lid on the left as well as on the right side.
The 2 motors will logically close the lid, but you are still able to move it up and down. With this security step done, you can start to drive the roof, but you stay able to get access to the trunc in each situation.

Have a look at the following video from @germinator for a better understanding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhD02MDAznE

Try the following:
manually support the hydraulic pump with a 2nd person to lift the rear shell up to it's upper position. What happens on the second step, when the main package will start to move back into the boot?
Just stop this step right after the package starts to move back, without putting it into the boot.
From this point, I expect you will be able to completely close the roof again. Give it a try.

 

[RobbiZ4]

Another question:
Did you touch this screw on top of the pump?

Since this is a valve for the hydraulic hoses in the roof, it may not be completely closed. That would then be the cause of the slow movement of the rear roof shell. Check, if its closed completely, but don't destroy it - it's only a valve!
The front screw/valve is for the roof, the rear screw/valve is for the trunc lid.



Turn it into the opposite direction for closing:

 

[enuff_zed]

Fully prepared to be dismissed by the guru :wink: ...
but given that it is moving too slowly, but not giving any error codes, is there any chance a hydraulic line could be kinked/restricted?

Not from my understanding:
As all 3 groups of hydraulic rams operate semi synchron in this car, one single broken/kinked/restriced hydraulic hose would lead to an uneven movement of the lid, the roof shell or the roof package. You will see and identify this issue immediately.

Thanks Robbi. That's cleared that up.

 

[Webless]

Ok update as I am just back home from RBM Hampshire. New pump and motor fitted and everything works fine, not a single glitch anywhere.

Checked the valves in the old pump and they are tight shut so no leaks there.

So, in conclusion then, either the refurb motor wasn’t up to the job (I know I fitted it correctly, seal is in place and everything tightened up) or the pump is faulty.

I will contact RoofMotors and see what arrangement we can come to re me returning the motor and selling the old pump, they are like gold dust and when I contacted them grey didn’t have any pumps.

The new motor has four solenoids so looks like there are no back compatibility issues with the original three solenoid I had before.

A huge thank you for all the effort, everyone has been given up valuable time to be helpful. I hope my account and photos of this saga prove helpful to someone else.

As for the water leak, I haven’t yet found any way of tracing the problem, a hose over the car and buckets of water came up with nothing, water drains off as it should. Glue round the seals is completely fine. Could be the air vents in each corner of the boot (known and common problem on other BMWs like the 1 series).

Below is the new pump and motor, RMB passed on their discount, that combined with their reduced hourly rate compared to dealership took some of the sting out but of course these units are pricey.

Thanks all !!

 

[RobbiZ4]

Did you finally try to fasten the brass screw/valve? I had a similiar situation on an E89, where this simple step solved the issue.

 

[Webless]

Yes I checked the valve and no moment, in fact if anything it’s almost seized but I didn’t want to force it just out interest.

My hunch is the motor lacked the power but no way proving it myself.

 

[mcbraidwood1]

Glad you got it sorted Webless.

Re the water ingress, I have exactly the same issue (No sign of a leak but water still go into the boot). I'm getting the vents changed in a few weeks, so I'll keep an eye on it after that and update if it doesn't fix it.

 

[Webless]

Ah good to hear, I am also going to change the vents, I think you have to remove the bumper cover to do this. I have ordered them. I have also just changed the two weather strips near the rear window and have some other weather trims on order from BMW. I will post photos and part numbers when the job is done. I can see there are some signs of water from the vent as it looks like watermarks.

See also this video from someone running a text on his Zed..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWAQkveDXuk

 

[Webless]

Just an update on using the Foxwell to unlock the boot. I posted earlier in this thread that I could not get either of the two options the Foxwell has to get the boot open. I tried the JBE Control option again but this time with the engine running and it worked. So I 'think' that may be the difference.

Yesterday I drove circa 200-mile round trip and an odd thing happening is 50% of the time when I start the car I don't get any sound from the speakers, there doesn't seem to be any pattern as to why sometimes it's fine and them sometimes not. Stopped to get fuel, restarted, and no sound. Sometime later I pulled over to layby to make a phone call, restarted and sound fine, then the next time no sound and so it goes.

It could be perhaps my battery is struggling, not due to age but due to the water ingress. I did recharge it but who knows what issues may arise when water filled the boot! I will monitor this over the next month or so and see if this continues, if it does then a new battery may be the first attempt to fix it.

 

[Anonymous]

How old is the battery?

 

[Webless]

Around 18months. The problem was the water reached up to the red fuse/connector box (as per the the earlier part of this thread) so for quite some time the contacts were in effect connected under water. Tomorrow I will put it on charge again and see if it’s dropped much. If it’s still full charge then I guess the issue is elsewhere.