Bilstein B16/PSS-10 makes noises. Fails! Opinions?

Franzino said:
exdos said:
Franzino said:
Problem; welding on the chassis is not legal for the yearly MOT vehicle inspection in my country... :( If they notice it on the inspection then it will result in a car that will be denied road access! It's true; I know about people who had this happen after the MOT inspection spotted a small aftermarket spot welding on the chassis. This resulted is a really expensive operation to get the car back to street legal....
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I'm not disputing this because I've no knowledge of your laws, but how do cars in Belgium get fixed after road accidents which can be repaired but require welding?
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They replace big parts....but small spot welding on the chassis is not approved.
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totally bizarre.
 
Franzino said:
They replace big parts....but small spot welding on the chassis is not approved.
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I don't know whether this would help you to get around that stupid legislation, but get a helpful engineering company to weld brackets onto both the removable tower suports for the OEM strutbace and also get them to make a pair of diagonal braces that fix to these points and the firewall. Simply remove the strutbrace and supports when presenting the car for MOT. Would that help?

Alternatively, discuss the problem and the potential solutions with your usual MOT tester. If they won't help find a more helpful tester.
 
exdos said:
Franzino said:
They replace big parts....but small spot welding on the chassis is not approved.
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I don't know whether this would help you to get around that stupid legislation, but get a helpful engineering company to weld brackets onto both the removable tower suports for the OEM strutbace and also get them to make a pair of diagonal braces that fix to these points and the firewall. Simply remove the strutbrace and supports when presenting the car for MOT.
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This is something that me and the shop are thinking about...
 
My Bilstein suspension is now one year old… From day one it made a small rattling noise in the front :(
Everything was checked for hours in my garage and nothing was found loose. Then we were thinking that maybe the problem was with the connection of the firewall braces but after some more investigation every connection looked ok with zero movement. In the end I was 99% sure it had something to do with the front Bilstein shock absorbers themselves. It was only a small noise, but the suspension felt 100% ok and made my car drive better and more fun (on street and track).

This month the noise suddenly got worse and I could also feel a little movement in my steering wheel when the front suspension was taking bigger bumps. This was not good news! Next month my dealer is taking everything of the car and sending the suspension back to Bilstein… Let's hope they will fix the two problems! This means I will be driving some time with my old suspension (oem dampers with Eibach springs).

[youtube]BTDTWD5S4uI[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDTWD5S4uI
 
Just a thought: in the parts diagram below, have the two bolts (numbered 3), which attach the shock absorber to the wheel hub been replaced with new bolts when the suspension was fitted? If not then that would be my first point of suspicion. BMW uses self locking bolts which lose their grip if reused and these particular bolts are on TIGHT and take some shifting to undo. Unless these bolts are gripping as tight as they should be then this will give you some rattling - ask me how I know? :wink:


3elb.png
 
exdos said:
Just a thought: in the parts diagram below, have the two bolts (numbered 3), which attach the shock absorber to the wheel hub been replaced with new bolts when the suspension was fitted? If not then that would be my first point of suspicion. BMW uses self locking bolts which lose their grip if reused and these particular bolts are on TIGHT and take some shifting to undo. Unless these bolts are gripping as tight as they should be then this will give you some rattling - ask me how I know? :wink:


3elb.png
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I don't know? My shop did the installation...but I can check this myself by replacing the bolts with new ones and do a test drive if anything improves. You say; "two bolts"... but I only see one bolt with number 3. Do you by any chance know the torque settings of these bolts when installing new ones, or where I could find this value?

First thing tomorrow I'm going to order these bolts with BMW.. Thanks for the tip! Any more....? Just shoot ;)
 
I don't know what size the thread is on the B16, but the torque values are as follows:

M8 = 13Nm
M10 = 25Nm
M12 = 45Nm
M14 = 72Nm
M16 = 110Nm
 
Mister T said:
I don't know what size the thread is on the B16, but the torque values are as follows:

M8 = 13Nm
M10 = 25Nm
M12 = 45Nm
M14 = 72Nm
M16 = 110Nm
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Great! I did not know that every bolt size was linked to a specific Nm value...
 
Franzino said:
Mister T said:
I don't know what size the thread is on the B16, but the torque values are as follows:

M8 = 13Nm
M10 = 25Nm
M12 = 45Nm
M14 = 72Nm
M16 = 110Nm
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Great! I did not know that every bolt size was linked to a specific Nm value...
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General information document containing torque settings for BMWs

http://tedserbinski.com/files/bmw_torq.pdf
 
Franzino said:
I don't know? My shop did the installation...but I can check this myself by replacing the bolts with new ones and do a test drive if anything improves. You say; "two bolts"... but I only see one bolt with number 3. Do you by any chance know the torque settings of these bolts when installing new ones, or where I could find this value?

First thing tomorrow I'm going to order these bolts with BMW.. Thanks for the tip! Any more....? Just shoot ;)
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Take another look at the parts diagram I posted, and you'll see that the bracket on the bottom of the damper has two holes where the 2 bolts (Part 3) go. When you inspect the location you'll soon see what I mean. I've posted a link to the parts lists and diagram for you. The bolts you'd need are PN 31 31 1 136 465

http://mfans2.com/parts/catalog/E86...front_axle/front_spring_strut_shock_absorber/

I see others have posted the torque specs. Because the bolts BMW use are self-locking undoing them can take a lot of force so be careful to ensure that you use a socket and a long bar and make sure that the socket is fully on and mind your knuckles! IIRC you can undo them with a wheel brace, which helps.

Sometimes the tops of the dampers don't tighten as well as they might in the top mount too, so that would be worth checking at the same time, before you refit new bottom bolts. :thumbsup:
 
Guys sorry to go back to the start about the noise.

Notice your springs dont have any rubber around the coils and sounds like youve got some spring slap.

Look for tein spring silencers

You can get a variety of sizes from camskill

http://www.tein.co.uk/product/silencer_rubber.html
 
ba3bas said:
Guys sorry to go back to the start about the noise.

Notice your springs dont have any rubber around the coils and sounds like youve got some spring slap.

Look for tein spring silencers

You can get a variety of sizes from camskill

http://www.tein.co.uk/product/silencer_rubber.html
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The small rattling noise (from day 1 after the installation) was only hearable on small bumps… So I doubt that it was the sound of the springs touching each other in full compression. I presume that you mean that with spring slap? I also had some rear suspension noise after the installation… But this was only a bolt that was not 100% thight and this was an easy fix and resolved in 5 minutes. The rear never gave me any noise again, only the front.

The new (louder) noise and feeling in steering collum is only on 1 side of the front, so in my opinion it's certainly nothing like spring slap…

Still a good tip :D
 
exdos said:
Take another look at the parts diagram I posted, and you'll see that the bracket on the bottom of the damper has two holes where the 2 bolts (Part 3) go. When you inspect the location you'll soon see what I mean. I've posted a link to the parts lists and diagram for you. The bolts you'd need are PN 31 31 1 136 465

http://mfans2.com/parts/catalog/E86...front_axle/front_spring_strut_shock_absorber/

I see others have posted the torque specs. Because the bolts BMW use are self-locking undoing them can take a lot of force so be careful to ensure that you use a socket and a long bar and make sure that the socket is fully on and mind your knuckles! IIRC you can undo them with a wheel brace, which helps.

Sometimes the tops of the dampers don't tighten as well as they might in the top mount too, so that would be worth checking at the same time, before you refit new bottom bolts. :thumbsup:
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Thanks! I see what you mean… In your opinion; should I also replace bolt number 5?

I will definitely order 4x bolt 31 31 1 136 465 tomorrow and replace them as a test. The bolt has dimension M12 X 20… So I was looking in the torque spec sheet dat was posted here. There in no separate chapter for suspension (as there is for engine, exhaust, gearbox, etc). So I went looking in the main torque setting, but there are different values for a M12 bolt. Which one should I take (little confusing that pdf file :oops: ). Also is the value in Nm or in ft. lbs? http://tedserbinski.com/files/bmw_torq.pdf

It stated in this topic that a M12 bolt is 45 Nm of torque, but the PDF file says other things… There is no specific value for a M12 x 20, but 45 Nm seems a little low for a suspension bolt that needs to handle some impact forces.

VYnaTP.jpg
 
The torque values I listed came from the Bilstein B16 installation instructions, so would only apply to hardware supplied by Bilstein.
 
I have checked the 24mm bolt at top of the left damper. I don't know how much Nm the 24mm should have, but everything feels thight..
 
Franzino said:
Thanks! I see what you mean… In your opinion; should I also replace bolt number 5?
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Sorry not responded earlier. Bolt number 5 is essentially part of a hinge and the nut is only a retainer and is not under tensile forces so should be reusable, just put a bit of loctite on it when reusing.

Franzino said:
I will definitely order 4x bolt 31 31 1 136 465 tomorrow and replace them as a test. The bolt has dimension M12 X 20… So I was looking in the torque spec sheet dat was posted here. There in no separate chapter for suspension (as there is for engine, exhaust, gearbox, etc). So I went looking in the main torque setting, but there are different values for a M12 bolt. Which one should I take (little confusing that pdf file :oops: ). Also is the value in Nm or in ft. lbs? http://tedserbinski.com/files/bmw_torq.pdf

It stated in this topic that a M12 bolt is 45 Nm of torque, but the PDF file says other things… There is no specific value for a M12 x 20, but 45 Nm seems a little low for a suspension bolt that needs to handle some impact forces.

VYnaTP.jpg
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The relevant information for the tightening torques for the M12 bolts is the "8.8", "10.9" or "12.9" on the heads of the bolts: this is the tensile strength of the bolt. I would think that the bolts 31 31 1 136 465 are M12 thread (the wheel bolts are M12 x 1.5 thread) so you could compare the threads to check.
 
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