Basic stereo 6 speaker upgrade..update Amp added..final update, active subwoofer installed

[mr.tourette]

Maybe. Im no expert on amps tho, Im guessing you will be able to amp up everything better using 2 amps but the only way to truly bypass the head unit setting will be to code to hifi. If you are happy to push your budget tho then it may well work very well, Pete would be better positioned to advise you here. I can say though that on my little vibe amp the benefit is huge, whilst the increase to the rears is still clipped by the head unit they're still very audible. You want the sounstage biased to the front of the car anyway so pushing too much to the rear may not be beneficial.
I think the speakers you have invested in dont need a mass of amplification to bring a positive result

Im currently pondering an active underseat sub wired direct to the battery which will then plug into the rca on the vibe, this (technically) should relieve the mid woofers of heavy bass duties and allow more power to the fronts from the vibe and cleaning things up even further.. food for thought

 

[Anonymous]

If you are going to get into pedantisms then..

Woofers (unlike sub woofers) as fitted in the E89 footwells should really be fed with stereo sound channels as the human ear can (at the frequencies that the woofer oeprates at) easily discriminate left and right.. so playback with woofer frequencies L/R merged would 'not help' to a successful stereo image of the playback..

To use a phrase in UK Lidl shops 'when its gone its gone'.. ie any post recovery attempt of the heavily processed rear channels is not going to work well, due to the fact that the signnal you are trying to recover is very suppressed..

But as in all these things if you think it sounds alright then that's all that matters..

As in all things.. a clean start results in a better end result .. but money / joy of twiddling are contra factors..

 

[Silverstar]

Finally finished installing all the new speakers and wow what a difference they make! Since they aren't plug and play its's a bit of faff getting everything to fit but worth the time and trouble considering the huge amount of money saved compared to going with custom speakers from the likes of Eton Focal etc. I wonder though how much difference if any there would be in sound quality between those and these Crunch / Hertz setup.

I decided to retain the factory wiring so got these plug and play speaker cables for the 4" mids:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-Series-E90-2006-2011-Car-Speaker-Wiring-Cable-Adaptor-Pair/263986549069?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

For the footwells I couldn't find any that looked like they would be an exact fit so ended getting some for Peugeot / Citroen of Amazon and cut them down so to expose the pins which fitted straight into the BMW factory connector after which I just zip tied them together so they won't come apart.







The Crunch components DSX4.2 are great, you get the sound from the tweeters coming to you at more or less ear level so great for sound staging and the clarity is great. How much better they are compared to the coaxials I can't say as I couldn't be bothered to experiment installing one then the other. But for the little extra I paid compared to the coaxials I would say they are well worth it.

I installed the crossover using some velcro tape on door barrier protection sheet as can be seen in this picture:



The tweeter needed a bit of fiddling around with to get them to fit the door mirror housings. They are a little bit too small to just clip in the housing so I wrapped a bit velcro around circumference of the tweeter, this way the tabs / clips of the mirror housing have something to grip on and once the foam backing is in place the tweeters aren't going anywhere. Also doing it this is way is totally non destructive to the housing and the tweeter:









And this is how they look once installed in the car:



Overall I am very happy with the upgrade, the Hertz woofers gives real low bass which was lacking before and the clarity from the Crunch is way better than stock. Although I am still lusting for some deep down bass which can only be had from a subwoofer, I hear what you say Pete with regards to the woofers in the kick panels needing a stereo signal so I will probably leave the four channels (rear, doors and kick panels) on one four channel amp and have another amp driving some subs.

I have thought the same as you Mir Tourette about getting some under seat subs and mounting them behind the seats. But would prefer it if somehow I could install them in the same location as original subs that you get in cars with the higher end sound systems. I wonder if I can somehow just mount them to the rear trim panel rather than getting the original enclosure and having to rip the whole rear apart to fit them.

I have Just got to decide now if to go for a standard four channel amp like the VIBE Powerbox 65.4 or to go for the Axton with the built in DSP, I would imagine it would give somewhat better sound due to the built in DSP?

 

[Silverstar]

Sorry I don't know why that last photo appeared again as I didn't upload it twice!

 

[Yoghurt]

Great write up Slverstar, thanks

 

[maxman]

This is an interesting thread.Excellent write ups by all

 

[mr.tourette]

Good job champ.. its a good feeling when you get those speakers running and listen to a few tracks, shows what a difference just some decent speakers make

No reason you couldn't mount a slim active sub behind the seat rather than under it, thats where i would most likely put mine provided i can make a neat install

 

[Silverstar]

Good job champ.. its a good feeling when you get those speakers running and listen to a few tracks, shows what a difference just some decent speakers make

No reason you couldn't mount a slim active sub behind the seat rather than under it, thats where i would most likely put mine provided i can make a neat install

Slim active subs behind the seats would be the easiest for installation but I like the idea of putting a couple normal subs mounted flush on the rear panel where the OEM subs normally go, it would make for a cleaner install. Rather than putting them in the OEM enclosure and mounting them behind the trim, I wonder if it is possible to just cut a hole in the trim and mount them from the front. Something small like the Kicker Comp RT 6.75" or perhaps some 8"

Saying that, the amps and subs will have to wait a while, next on order is an Apple car play MMI box. I want to see how that wires in and weather I can tap into the speakers outputs via the T Harness that will be supplied with the CarPlay box, thereby not destroying the factory wiring. I am thinking of sticking two amps in the boot where the factory amp would normally fit since you can easily get the power and earth from there.

 

[ianl]

Silverstar, do you have a link to the Peugeot connector on Amazon please? Thanks in advance.

 

[mr.tourette]

Silverstar, do you have a link to the Peugeot connector on Amazon please? Thanks in advance.

I think Silverstar might have missed this link i put in page 1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382269999366

it has a set of adapters for the footwells as well as one for either the doors or rears

 

[Silverstar]

Silverstar, do you have a link to the Peugeot connector on Amazon please? Thanks in advance.

I think Silverstar might have missed this link i put in page 1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382269999366

it has a set of adapters for the footwells as well as one for either the doors or rears

Those look different to the connectors on our 6.5" I think they are correct for the 8" subwoofers that you get in cars with the upgraded hifi. I contacted a vendor selling that type and sent him photos of the connector on the 6.5" woofers and he confirmed it was different.

Hence why I used the Peugeot / Citroen type. I got it off Amazon Spain (since I am here) but you should able to find the same in Amazon UK, they were somewhat cheaper too:

https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00CNACRVU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Anonymous]

Good job champ.. its a good feeling when you get those speakers running and listen to a few tracks, shows what a difference just some decent speakers make

No reason you couldn't mount a slim active sub behind the seat rather than under it, thats where i would most likely put mine provided i can make a neat install

Slim active subs behind the seats would be the easiest for installation but I like the idea of putting a couple normal subs mounted flush on the rear panel where the OEM subs normally go, it would make for a cleaner install. Rather than putting them in the OEM enclosure and mounting them behind the trim, I wonder if it is possible to just cut a hole in the trim and mount them from the front. Something small like the Kicker Comp RT 6.75" or perhaps some 8"

Saying that, the amps and subs will have to wait a while, next on order is an Apple car play MMI box. I want to see how that wires in and weather I can tap into the speakers outputs via the T Harness that will be supplied with the CarPlay box, thereby not destroying the factory wiring. I am thinking of sticking two amps in the boot where the factory amp would normally fit since you can easily get the power and earth from there.

The subs issue IMHO is a bit of a rathole...

I fitted Audison premium OE fit upgrades into the factory enclosures driven by a dedicated 500 W RMS class D amp..

https://www.audison.eu/products/apbmw-s8-4/

https://www.alpine.co.uk/p/Products/SingleView/MRV-M500

So about as good as it gets price wise...

The performance is very disappointing...primarily because the enclosure volume is very small...and the E89 cabin doesn’t let the subs ‘play’

It depends if you listen to your music top up or top down...

Top down IMHO it’s a waste of money..

You can fit a sub from the front...the issue is that the structure to support it is very weak and would likely resonate badly ...and you still have the lack of volume and neither a sealed enclosure nor a ported solution..

Space wise I don’t think you can get enough space to fit under seat subwoofers integrated solutions..

With money spent and hindsight I would focus on the front woofers and pour money and attention to that area..

 

[mr.tourette]

Silverstar, do you have a link to the Peugeot connector on Amazon please? Thanks in advance.

I think Silverstar might have missed this link i put in page 1 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382269999366

it has a set of adapters for the footwells as well as one for either the doors or rears

Those look different to the connectors on our 6.5" I think they are correct for the 8" subwoofers that you get in cars with the upgraded hifi. I contacted a vendor selling that type and sent him photos of the connector on the 6.5" woofers and he confirmed it was different.

Hence why I used the Peugeot / Citroen type. I got it off Amazon Spain (since I am here) but you should able to find the same in Amazon UK, they were somewhat cheaper too:

https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B00CNACRVU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

ah okay i thought they looked very similar and assumed bmw wouldn't have that many different types of adapters for essentially the same gauge wiring and a 2 pin connection.. they cut corners everywhere else on the stereo

 

[john-e89]

Good job champ.. its a good feeling when you get those speakers running and listen to a few tracks, shows what a difference just some decent speakers make

No reason you couldn't mount a slim active sub behind the seat rather than under it, thats where i would most likely put mine provided i can make a neat install

Slim active subs behind the seats would be the easiest for installation but I like the idea of putting a couple normal subs mounted flush on the rear panel where the OEM subs normally go, it would make for a cleaner install. Rather than putting them in the OEM enclosure and mounting them behind the trim, I wonder if it is possible to just cut a hole in the trim and mount them from the front. Something small like the Kicker Comp RT 6.75" or perhaps some 8"

Saying that, the amps and subs will have to wait a while, next on order is an Apple car play MMI box. I want to see how that wires in and weather I can tap into the speakers outputs via the T Harness that will be supplied with the CarPlay box, thereby not destroying the factory wiring. I am thinking of sticking two amps in the boot where the factory amp would normally fit since you can easily get the power and earth from there.

The subs issue IMHO is a bit of a rathole...

I fitted Audison premium OE fit upgrades into the factory enclosures driven by a dedicated 500 W RMS class D amp..

https://www.audison.eu/products/apbmw-s8-4/

https://www.alpine.co.uk/p/Products/SingleView/MRV-M500

So about as good as it gets price wise...

The performance is very disappointing...primarily because the enclosure volume is very small...and the E89 cabin doesn’t let the subs ‘play’

It depends if you listen to your music top up or top down...

Top down IMHO it’s a waste of money..

You can fit a sub from the front...the issue is that the structure to support it is very weak and would likely resonate badly ...and you still have the lack of volume and neither a sealed enclosure nor a ported solution..

Space wise I don’t think you can get enough space to fit under seat subwoofers integrated solutions..

With money spent and hindsight I would focus on the front woofers and pour money and attention to that area..

It’s not the E89 cabin that’s the problem it’s the gear being used. You can’t expect much from the stock locations. If you want good clean tight bass you need a separate enclosure. I don’t agree with focussing on the front for bass, sound staging says get the bass behind you with the mids and tweets up front. I’d suggest money would be better spent getting an installer to make up a stealth enclosure if you’re not good with the tools or woodwork/fibreglassing. Good quality gear is wasted if it’s in rubbish enclosures, but not hugely expensive gear can sound amazing if you throw a little at getting the basics right.

 

[Anonymous]

Many people writing on this subject would disagree about bass being behind you... for example this wordy and excellent article.. https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/car-audio-explained.html

Today all recordings are made in stereo (save DVD movie sound tracks)... this is a front biased setup for all frequencies...in a perfect world both speakers would be point sources generating all frequencies in some form of equilateral triangle with the listener at one point..

You can place a sub woofer away from the centre as the sound travels in a non directional basis..so the human ears/brain cannot resolve that... the higher the frequency the better the chance to determine it’s a location..

When it comes to the subwoofer it’s a struggle...yes a large ported box in the boot would work...but with a full metal bulkhead between the cabin and boot the subwoofer will struggle to get through unlike the normal cardboard type separator in a saloon car between boot and cabin...

You could fabricate a ported subwoofer to rest across the rear ‘parcel’ shelf behind the seats...AFAIK I’m not aware of anyone who has successfully done that..

The existing subwoofer locations are hermetically sealed enclosures...just very small..about 5-10 litres..

Having a fully tweakable DSP with the ability to do time/phase/frequency sampling and adjusting I could get everything about perfect...great and precise soundstage, good smooth sound..but as I said the subwoofers contribute little..in fact I can switch them off and the difference in perceived playback is negligible..

The same playback on my mid range 3.1 audio / media system with a nice ported active woofer in my ‘snug’ shows that extended base can be had..just not in an E89...again AFAIK and IMHO..

 

[Silverstar]

Slim active subs behind the seats would be the easiest for installation but I like the idea of putting a couple normal subs mounted flush on the rear panel where the OEM subs normally go, it would make for a cleaner install. Rather than putting them in the OEM enclosure and mounting them behind the trim, I wonder if it is possible to just cut a hole in the trim and mount them from the front. Something small like the Kicker Comp RT 6.75" or perhaps some 8"

Saying that, the amps and subs will have to wait a while, next on order is an Apple car play MMI box. I want to see how that wires in and weather I can tap into the speakers outputs via the T Harness that will be supplied with the CarPlay box, thereby not destroying the factory wiring. I am thinking of sticking two amps in the boot where the factory amp would normally fit since you can easily get the power and earth from there.

The subs issue IMHO is a bit of a rathole...

I fitted Audison premium OE fit upgrades into the factory enclosures driven by a dedicated 500 W RMS class D amp..

https://www.audison.eu/products/apbmw-s8-4/

https://www.alpine.co.uk/p/Products/SingleView/MRV-M500

So about as good as it gets price wise...

The performance is very disappointing...primarily because the enclosure volume is very small...and the E89 cabin doesn’t let the subs ‘play’

It depends if you listen to your music top up or top down...

Top down IMHO it’s a waste of money..

You can fit a sub from the front...the issue is that the structure to support it is very weak and would likely resonate badly ...and you still have the lack of volume and neither a sealed enclosure nor a ported solution..

Space wise I don’t think you can get enough space to fit under seat subwoofers integrated solutions..

With money spent and hindsight I would focus on the front woofers and pour money and attention to that area..

It’s not the E89 cabin that’s the problem it’s the gear being used. You can’t expect much from the stock locations. If you want good clean tight bass you need a separate enclosure. I don’t agree with focussing on the front for bass, sound staging says get the bass behind you with the mids and tweets up front. I’d suggest money would be better spent getting an installer to make up a stealth enclosure if you’re not good with the tools or woodwork/fibreglassing. Good quality gear is wasted if it’s in rubbish enclosures, but not hugely expensive gear can sound amazing if you throw a little at getting the basics right.

From the little research that I have done you can have the subs behind you but they should be set up so that it is not obvious that they are behind you, if you understand what I mean.

With regards to cutting a hole in the trim panel behind the seats and mounting some small subs directly on that panel, I did think about it resonating. A way around that would be to have a plywood / MDF panel to fit the width and height of the trim behind the seats around 10 to 20mm thick and finish it with some matching carpet. Somehow attach that to the trim panel and then mount the subs on that MDF / Plywood board. I have seen a photo somewhere of the rear bulkhead with trim removed where the original subs (and enclosure) sit and that space / volume does look a bit small. Perhaps some subs that need a small enclosure like these (or something similar) might do the job:

https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/all-products/maxp64-lanzar-maxp64-max-pro-6.5-600w-small-enclosure-4-ohm-subwoofer-(single).html

The other option would be have a custom enclosure / bass tube in the boot, my car has the parcel shelf cubby box in the rear panel which can be removed and grill fitted to allow sound to pass through or you could somehow attach a sub in the trunk to the rear panel facing that cut out into the car.

The other option like another member has done is to fit some proper subs in the kick panels like Kickers Comprt 6.75" but I don't want to be removing the rather nice Hertz woofers that I just installed.

I have had an under seat sub back in the 90's in my Celica and they performed pretty well back then although not as good as having some proper subs but better than not having any! Now with new tech maybe they perform even better? So this would be the easiest solution but they would have to be mounted behind the seats since as Pete has quite rightly pointed out there is no space under the seats in this Z4.

In the end there has to be way, you know what they say where there's a will there's a way and all that...........

 

[mr.tourette]

Ive already ordered an underseat sub so we will find out, I should have known I would open a can of worms once I started as i do like a clean sounding hifi I'll mount it on the bulkhead behind the seat if it won't go under, there may be room half in/out as my seat has a reasonable gap behind it. Like you say technology has advanced and I'm not looking for earth shattering performance, just a modest improvement in deep bass would be just fine and any sub is better than none..I hope, on the plus side with 30 day returns available if I'm not convinced it can go back. Will put me at £376 all in ..I still think that's a very reasonable cost to go the the full monty so to speak, and will absolutely 100% stop there

 

[Anonymous]

With regards to cutting a hole in the trim panel behind the seats and mounting some small subs directly on that panel, I did think about it resonating. A way around that would be to have a plywood / MDF panel to fit the width and height of the trim behind the seats around 10 to 20mm thick and finish it with some matching carpet. Somehow attach that to the trim panel and then mount the subs on that MDF / Plywood board. I have seen a photo somewhere of the rear bulkhead with trim removed where the original subs (and enclosure) sit and that space / volume does look a bit small. Perhaps some subs that need a small enclosure like these (or something similar) might do the job:

https://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/all-prod ... ngle).html


The issue with those subwoofers..great price...is they are too deep to fit in the limited depth of the subwoofer space even with a 20mm front panel in the existing subwoofer area...without an enclosure either sealed or deliberately and knowingly ported subwoofers make buggar all sound..

If you have the time and inclination by all means experiment...

 

[Silverstar]

Will put me at £376 all in ..I still think that's a very reasonable cost to go the the full monty so to speak, and will absolutely 100% stop there

Are you sure? if the underseat sub sounds good maybe you'll add another one? :rofl: oke:

 

[mr.tourette]

Will put me at £376 all in ..I still think that's a very reasonable cost to go the the full monty so to speak, and will absolutely 100% stop there

Are you sure? if the underseat sub sounds good maybe you'll add another one? :rofl: oke:

Im sure...for this year at least, maybe in next winter if I'm bored but I'm fairly sure one will suffice for now..time to move onto other projects