auto owners.
- Thread starter Beedub
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Beedub said:
That's without question in my mind & Si auto with sport button down would burn the majority of Ms away too as it really is floor & go :evil:
Not driven a DCT 35Is but even without tweaking i can well imagine that most other cars would disappear in the rearview mirror & not come back
If you're talking a proper drag race against a manual with a good driver, revving on the start line, flat-shifting etc then it may be close. However in the real world at the traffic lights, just taking your foot off the brake and accelerating as fast as possible, the auto will win every single time imo.
I think it also feels like an old guys car with the awful gear stick they put in the standard auto. The SMG gearstick looks cooler and more purposeful so does the dual clutch knob of the E89.
I had a go in a 35i dual clutch recently and they are so intelligent and really great fun to drive really really liked I would take an E89 dual clutch over an E85/6 because its character is so much better. It rides well, super comfy and goes like stink. Ok it feels more like a 3 series to drive and no where as good in the corners but a new suspension set up would sort that. Seen as tho you already have an M and want a comfy daily that can be a coupe also the 35i is such a great car. You can get them from 10k too which is less than the E86 and its miles better equipped.
Reason I have steered away from them is because originally I was doing a 2 hour commute a day and couldn't really justify having 2 cars. Now I work 5 mins away so can justify having a daily and a weekender so want something more raw than the E89.
I had a go in a 35i dual clutch recently and they are so intelligent and really great fun to drive really really liked I would take an E89 dual clutch over an E85/6 because its character is so much better. It rides well, super comfy and goes like stink. Ok it feels more like a 3 series to drive and no where as good in the corners but a new suspension set up would sort that. Seen as tho you already have an M and want a comfy daily that can be a coupe also the 35i is such a great car. You can get them from 10k too which is less than the E86 and its miles better equipped.
Reason I have steered away from them is because originally I was doing a 2 hour commute a day and couldn't really justify having 2 cars. Now I work 5 mins away so can justify having a daily and a weekender so want something more raw than the E89.
STUBOY2UK said:
I've got one off my last car that I damaged when trying to see if it would come apart to wrap - took one for the forum (they don't...) and someone donated me their old one when they replaced theirs. So I could loan it to him, but could he replicate the internal workings ? Needs the switch mechanism.
STUBOY2UK said:
That pretty much sums it up. Despite the obvious delight that many get from a manual, the reality is that autos have come on so much and take away all the minor errors that a driver induces the the auto is always quicker in normal real world situations
Opportunistic overtaking is the same. If a manual is in a lower gear and ready it may be quicker, but if you react to a gap and pass, the auto will be several feet ahead
North West Surrey
I've always bought manuals wherever possible, the only exceptions being a couple of Granadas and a couple of Mercs where manuals ones didn't really exist! (I even had a manual 190e)!
But my experiences may possibly be a bit tarnished by the age of the autos I have owned!
Had an experience with my first auto - wanted to overtake on a damp road, pulled out and accelerated - not enough grunt so floored it and it kicked down resulting in spinning up the rear wheels and less acceleration so lifted off a bit for grip and it changed back up - absolutely useless!
The other time I hated it was spirited driving on a B-road using kick-down on the straights, but brake for a corner and it slips into top gear, get part-way round the corner and the only way to get some power on coming out of it is to floor it for kickdown then the back steps out - also useless!
In both situations you can choose your gear and modulate acceleration using just the throttle in a manual - much more effective, and far more satisfying IMHO!
I realise dual-clutch boxes resolve these issues, but this is a Z4 forum and they never had them! Plus I couldn't live permanently in fear of a bill for rebuilding a dual-clutch box. :x
And anyway an E85/86 these days is a retro sort of car, so why not a "retro" manual? :lol:
Oh yes, probably relevant to say I don't commute in my Z4 so no need of a "lazy" option.
But like all these things, it really all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day which is always going to be influenced by what you need from the car.
Still we should probably just be grateful that BMW gave us a choice on our cars - they seem rather less keen on that these days.
But my experiences may possibly be a bit tarnished by the age of the autos I have owned!
Had an experience with my first auto - wanted to overtake on a damp road, pulled out and accelerated - not enough grunt so floored it and it kicked down resulting in spinning up the rear wheels and less acceleration so lifted off a bit for grip and it changed back up - absolutely useless!
The other time I hated it was spirited driving on a B-road using kick-down on the straights, but brake for a corner and it slips into top gear, get part-way round the corner and the only way to get some power on coming out of it is to floor it for kickdown then the back steps out - also useless!
In both situations you can choose your gear and modulate acceleration using just the throttle in a manual - much more effective, and far more satisfying IMHO!
I realise dual-clutch boxes resolve these issues, but this is a Z4 forum and they never had them! Plus I couldn't live permanently in fear of a bill for rebuilding a dual-clutch box. :x
And anyway an E85/86 these days is a retro sort of car, so why not a "retro" manual? :lol:
Oh yes, probably relevant to say I don't commute in my Z4 so no need of a "lazy" option.
But like all these things, it really all comes down to personal preference at the end of the day which is always going to be influenced by what you need from the car.
Still we should probably just be grateful that BMW gave us a choice on our cars - they seem rather less keen on that these days.
Depends on what your real world situation is. It's a fact that auto boxes are heavier, so that has some effect in acceleration, but foremost in cornering and braking (so are we talking about the stoplight sprint or a back road?). Its also a fact that all autoboxes have a hydraulic pump that soups up that tiny amount of power. Auto boxes with the same amount and ratio of gears therefore also always score worse in the NEDC fuel consumption cycle (lab conditioned tests)cj10jeeper said:
In all the e85/e86 specs bmw lists the manual as the faster one, and with the prefacelift ones the autobox is a five speed which gives it a disadvantage at the available ratios. There the specced acceleration disadvantage is highest: 0,6 sec in the 0-62 sprint, and who knows what difference at higher speeds. 0,6 sec is a fair amount to loose on a 1 shift sprint where gears are directly opposed (0-62 sprint requires 1st and 2nd gear with the 6speed at least). Ive timed it once, just out of curiousity (video and counting frames) and if I want I can shift&clutch in 0,3 sec to non opposed gears (ie from 5th to 2nd or 3rd) if I want. Do I shift like that every time? No, but if the car is warm and the situtation should require (like that gap when overtaking), I do.
Sure if you have more trouble shifting (like for instance, you have the shift knob in your left hand for some ancient reason.....
) or have less clutch feel an autobox is faster in a sprint, and maybe an autobox is a good option if you have trouble estimating the right gear at a given speed, but I know exactly the speedrange where a gear can function within. For instance If I drive 130kph on the highway, I know I can still shift to 3rd and still have 26km/h in which I can accelerate, so I can easily make for instance the decision when a fair bit of acceleration is required what gear to choose. If you know that for any given speed by heart you can instantly make that decision if needed.So it is very much a matter of one's own driving capabilities and driving style whether an auto box is the best choice or a manual imho.
Certainly the automatic gear selection (so having the autobox' brain having select what gear) is nowhere near as versitile and advanced as even a beginning motorist can do (anticipated driving anyone?)
Do automatics get better every generation? certainly! Do manual gearboxes get better? no.
. And E85/86 generation autos are not the latest "generation" are they?GuidoK said:
But autos certainly need to get better - manuals have always been the ultimate red-line chasers so peaked decades before autos (were invented?/started failing). :lol:
Nothing like playing catch-up!
Mr Tidy said:
The biggest hurdle to take for an automatic is deciding when to shift. That is usually done by calculating engine load, throtle pedal position, rpm etc. But those are all fairly invalid parameters compared what a real person does (or rather said: should do) when deciding what gear to select. Something called 'adaptive driving' or 'looking ahead'
The latest generation automatics (as seen in rolls royce, new 7 series etc) has gps/satnav data partly control the automatic gear selection. That way the gearbox gets data when there is a corner ahead or some sorts, on which it can predict what gear should be selected.
So the current state of the art automatics are now coming up to a point that they can somewhat predict that when entering a corner there should be a shift down instead of a shift up (because it sees the throttle lifted, the conventional reaction would be: hold it in gear or shift up, but certainly not shift down).
That is technology level the current automatisch are on at the moment. A process every beginning driver knows within the first few driving lessons he/she gets. BTW this also saves on break wear (this may be an eye opener for some people, but every mechanic knows that cars with automatic gearboxes tend to have much more brakewear than cars with manual gearboxes), and it saves a little bit on fuel consumption.
Apex assesment is still very difficult and there is of course no assesment of traffic situation etc whatsoever, whereas every driver learns this during his driving course.
Ok, when looking around on the road you often wonder with some individuals if they learned anything....
When I inevitably end up with an automatic car I won't mind so much as long as I can still control it if I want to. It's half the enjoyment of driving as otherwise it's literally stop & go which is terribly boring. Having a clutch and lever enchances the enjoyment factor as there's more skill but if you can at least play the 'box as you want you retain some element of thought when not driving flat out. I'm more dangerous following a slow driver than normally as I can feel myself switching off and blindly following the car in front...
Hi guys, I'm still hunting for my first Zed and not against the idea of an auto.. One question though, Ive been reading on here that people tend to say autos are quick off the line but i'm seeing stats of for example a 2.5si manual doing 0-60 in 6.5 secs and the auto doing 0-60 in 6.9 seconds.. Is this correct? Are autos slower to accelerate?
Sorry to get the auto/manual debate going again!! :?
Sorry to get the auto/manual debate going again!! :?
WE88Y said:
0 to X times published are generally with a test driver and harsh flat changes - something the average owner wouldn't be able to replicate every time.
In the Auto it is a simple case of hit the right hand pedal and hang on. The box will change as fast as it can every time. It never fluffs a change.