Auto or manual

[GuidoK]

I think the type of 'automatic' is largely irrelevant, yes they're different and feel differently but the net involvement is the same.

I dont agree.
That is the same as saying a stock SAC clutch is the same as a racing clutch. It's both pressing down on a pedal.
Or that every manual is/feels the same, you use a stick to select a gear.
Or that all cars are the same: you take a seat in it and go.

Differences in details can still be large differences.
The 'net involvement' is a very empty pair of words imho.
The 'net involvement' of every car is also the same, you go from point A to point B. How empty words can be without set definitions.... :wink:

 

[LeeZ4MR]

Why is having to depress clutch and have one hand off the steering wheel involving? Some of you people need to move with the the times.
To me if 0-60 time and MPG is not compromised its a no brainer. Modern auto any day of the week. Being stuck in traffic in a manual is really no fun. My TTS stronic in S mode will go through the gears faster than any human. Racing cars are semi auto.
I couldn't go back to a manual after my TTS s tronic gear box. I only hope 8 speed auto on the z4 28i I am getting is nearly as good as the s tronic Audi system.

Had the same car a TTS S-Tronic and I know I would have enjoyed the car more with a manual but in traffic I do like the S-Tronic because it's easier on the left leg, have the 8 Speed auto in the 640d and it does suit the Diesel engine to be fair and is a decent enough auto.

I don't personally get any satisfaction/reward from a two pedal car at all but that's just me.

 

[Spiderz]

Some great replies here, ive always loved a manual and have been really considering the auto, this is such a hard decision to make. Wish i could buy both lol

 

[Hilly30si]

I can understand if its your only everyday car then Auto is the way to go. But when its your Sunday car with a straight 6 under the bonnet Manual all day long

 

[Nanu]

Some great replies here, ive always loved a manual and have been really considering the auto, this is such a hard decision to make. Wish i could buy both lol

At the end of the day the decision can only be made by you after driving each for a day and see which you prefer. I have driven both and it's obvious which I prefer. But that's only my choice, it's not right and it's not wrong.

 

[brittas]

Parkers technical site (Bible) Z4 28i manual 0-60 mph 5.5 sec. Automatic 0-60mph 5.3 secs
Sorry it's another win for the auto camp.

 

[GuidoK]

If your life stops at 60mph it is

 

[techathy]

Parkers technical site (Bible) Z4 28i manual 0-60 mph 5.5 sec. Automatic 0-60mph 5.3 secs
Sorry it's another win for the auto camp.

BMW specs say the M135i auto is consistently faster than the M135i manual over 1/4 mile... actual real drag strips say different. Just saying.

 

[GuidoK]

An automatic always has a parasidic drag disadvantage.
For instance It needs an oil pump, it has a torque converter (that soups up power until lock up), and is heavier (that has also a handling disadvantage).
It tries to overcome that by using more gears (8 gears in the case of the bmw zf gearbox). But that only partly works, in case of most gearing used in bmw's case in the 0-60mph stretch.
But the real enthousiast doenst give a s**t about 0-60. It wants to know how it works on a track or on a mountain pass.
0-60 times are for people who dont know better and that can only process information in single or double digits.

 

[ronk]

An automatic always has a parasidic drag disadvantage.
For instance It needs an oil pump, it has a torque converter (that soups up power until lock up), and is heavier (that has also a handling disadvantage).
It tries to overcome that by using more gears (8 gears in the case of the bmw zf gearbox). But that only partly works, in case of most gearing used in bmw's case in the 0-60mph stretch.
But the real enthousiast doenst give a s**t about 0-60. It wants to know how it works on a track or on a mountain pass.
0-60 times are for people who dont know better and that can only process information in single or double digits.

But they keep it in the right gear and never miss a gear selection!

 

[jimmybell]

But the real enthousiast doenst give a s**t about 0-60. It wants to know how it works on a track or on a mountain pass.
0-60 times are for people who dont know better and that can only process information in single or double digits.

A 'real' enthusiast might not only ever be looking to buy a weekend 'drivers' car (the OP didn't specify), or might also consider the best choice for whatever their situation involves not having to manually change gear (be it living in heavy traffic areas, mainly interested in 0-60 perf, not having a left leg, etc).

The way you word things seems to imply that if someone doesn't agree with your opinion, you don't consider them an enthusiast. It's important to remember, especially on online forums, that you are not the only person here - and you might also not be the dogs bollocks yourself

I think we can all appreciate 0-60 times are a statistic often used when comparing a car's performance, and that they don't necessarily reflect the big picture - but to suggest people that consider a 0-60 as relevant are stupid... well.

 

[ronk]

I've had both Manual and Auto and used both on the Autobahn - flooring the throttle at 90 (ish) mph I stayed in top gear - in the Auto box at the same speed, it changed down - hence my comment about a manual box and the wrong ratio !

 

[Jasey]

I've had both Manual and Auto and used both on the Autobahn - flooring the throttle at 90 (ish) mph I stayed in top gear - in the Auto box at the same speed, it changed down - hence my comment about a manual box and the wrong ratio !

Yes but you're not a driving God Ron

 

[ronk]

Haven't even got string backed gloves

 

[Jasey]

Haven't even got string backed gloves

Amateur

 

[GuidoK]

but to suggest people that consider a 0-60 as relevant are stupid... well.

Well if you go and test 0-60 times with a 10hz gps like I did, you'll find that it is very very difficult to get consistent times within the time scope that was portrayed (0,2sec), especially if you have some power under the bonnet on a 2wd car. So to pass a judgement on that (as the argument was) is imho irrelevant as it will hold no real value. 60-120 or 40-80 (maybe even 0-120) is imho probably more relevant if you want to give real value to acceleration.
And 'stupid' is your choice of words. My choice of words was 'real enthousiast', and I stand by that if you're buying a sportscar/roadster and 0.2sec difference in a 0-60 acceleration is the benchmark or deciding factor. I think an enthousiast looks for involvement when driving. At least that's how it works for me.

But they keep it in the right gear and never miss a gear selection!

You think?
When for example approching a corner (or a traffic light), you lift off the throttle and shift down. At least if you had a proper instructor that's what you're supposed to do. You think an auto box can do that?
If any it will shift up. An auto box cant do anticipated shifts, and anticipating while driving is what it's all about imho.
BMW is experimenting with gps systems coupled to autoboxes to use that information to estimate what the proper next gear will be. If the autobox was always in the right gear they would not bother with that nou would they?
Why do you think cars with autoboxes generally suffer more from brake wear?


Missing a gear selection is a measure of how capable someone is. Maybe there are loads of people that are not capable enough to operate the workings of a car. Probably? (I dont know). Those kinds of people indeed also may wonder what gear they need. For those people an auto box probably is a good idea. If you dont know how to shift or dont know what the best gear is...sure.

 

[ronk]

People just say look at that silver haired auld fart in that sports car !

 

[ronk]

To answer your question, I did have a proper instructor - indeed I learned to drive in car with a crash box - so being in the correct gear was very important as the change wasn't as quick as a modern all synchro box that I guess you're used to.


Ps are you telling us you've never missed a gear or been in the wrong gear ? Be honest now!

 

[jimmybell]

Ps are you telling us you've never missed a gear or been in the wrong gear ? Be honest now!

He's perfect and only ever does the most enthusiast-based actions possible, didn't you read?

Must be thousands of people on pistonheads now massively disappointed to hear they're not enthusiasts after he's clarified exactly what one is. Maybe i'll emmigrate to a country where automatic cars have a place, and standing start acceleration is something that's allowed.

i'll stop. teehee.

 

[GuidoK]

Ps are you telling us you've never missed a gear or been in the wrong gear ? Be honest now!

Not that I can remember.
I dont understand that you make such a big deal out of it, I also cant remember sitting in a car with someone that is missing shifts either, except my dad but he is getting really old and doesnt hear that well anymore, trembling hands etc.
When I noticed that and he was ready for a new car I recommended him an automatic, and now he says it was the right choice because of that. Somehow when you're getting old you're getting past a point where somehow things get difficult that used to be easy somehow.
Not that I sit in cars with people all the time....but still...

But here's another example
With spirited driving, when you shift in the wrong gear, there's a 50% chance it's a higher gear and 50% chance it's a lower gear, right?
When accidentally hitting a lower gear and lifting off the clutch you'll probably destroy the engine. When do you hear that ever happening?
I've been with lots of people for instance to the alps where there was a lot of spirited driving (basically racing across the passes), and no one blew their engine. So in my book all those people also didn't miss a gear where there was a lot of shifing.
I don't think it's that common as you're trying to make it believe to be.

Maybe it's an english problem where the shift lever is on the left and most people are righthanded?
Or when people use that argument it says more about themselves than about others? :evil:
I dont see the big deal in it. I also never steered to the left when I wanted to steer to the right if that's your next question in a topic about cars that steer themselves....

Another thing an automatic usually cant do is skip multiple gears. When I want to overtake someone quickly, it's very common to change back from 6th to 3rd. I dont think there's any automatic that can do that in their kickdown mode (some may skip 1 gear?). If it goes to 5th, then 4th and then 3rd, it was twice in the wrong gear... :roll: