Australia v Djokovic - Australia wins...

Flyingfifer said:
This isnt Novak's fault its wholly and solely the fault of the Aus regime
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Maybe true, but I think most of the Oz population would question why anyone should get an exemption to play tennis. As for having Covid, I don't believe for a minute that he's had Covid.... that should not be a reason to get an exemption in the first place.
 
sp3ctre said:
Flyingfifer said:
This isnt Novak's fault its wholly and solely the fault of the Aus regime
Click to expand...

Maybe true, but I think most of the Oz population would question why anyone should get an exemption to play tennis. As for having Covid, I don't believe for a minute that he's had Covid.... that should not be a reason to get an exemption in the first place.
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I totally agree, if the citizens of Aus are having to live under a tyrannical rule then people from abroad shouldn't get exemptions regardless of who they are. But the issue here is the fact that an exemption was granted, he followed the rules in good faith, he done all that was asked of him and was told officially that he had an exemption (as several other players were as well), then after he was on route to the country his exemption was revoked by an embattled regime in order to placate anger. That's absolutely outrageous and in terms of international law I suspect quite dubious (he was given false pretence to visit and detained upon his arrival).

Again if this happened in Russia or China for example we would be seeing an international outrage about it and how appalling it was and authoritarian etc.
 
Wasn’t he only quarantined as he was fighting to stay? Pretty sure he could have hopped back on his private jet and gone home if he wanted. Again, it’s a game of tennis, not deporting a refugee back to a place where their life is in danger… I guess that’s why I kinda see the funny side.
 
Djokovic has been over there ten days? They're not pulling his visa because he is a public health risk. They're pulling it to punish and humiliate him for a private medical decision. And like in this thread people are cheering.
 
Flyingfifer said:
sp3ctre said:
Flyingfifer said:
This isnt Novak's fault its wholly and solely the fault of the Aus regime
Click to expand...

Maybe true, but I think most of the Oz population would question why anyone should get an exemption to play tennis. As for having Covid, I don't believe for a minute that he's had Covid.... that should not be a reason to get an exemption in the first place.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, if the citizens of Aus are having to live under a tyrannical rule then people from abroad shouldn't get exemptions regardless of who they are. But the issue here is the fact that an exemption was granted, he followed the rules in good faith, he done all that was asked of him and was told officially that he had an exemption (as several other players were as well), then after he was on route to the country his exemption was revoked by an embattled regime in order to placate anger. That's absolutely outrageous and in terms of international law I suspect quite dubious (he was given false pretence to visit and detained upon his arrival).

Again if this happened in Russia or China for example we would be seeing an international outrage about it and how appalling it was and authoritarian etc.
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Didn’t novax falsely claim he hadn’t visited other countries in the 2 weeks leading up to his trip?
Wasn’t he also found to have been out & about mingling with people despite knowing he’d allegedly tested positive for covid?
They don’t sound like the actions of somebody complying with the rules to me? :?
Rob
 
sp3ctre said:
Wasn’t he only quarantined as he was fighting to stay? Pretty sure he could have hopped back on his private jet and gone home if he wanted. Again, it’s a game of tennis, not deporting a refugee back to a place where their life is in danger… I guess that’s why I kinda see the funny side.
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My understanding was that he was "arrested" and "detained" by Aus Boarder force, he might have been able to get back on a plane and leave but that would also come with a 3 year blanket denial of entry to Aus never mind the fact that he travelled there and had done everything required of him by law in order to get the exemption. So he fought it.

Again lets not forget, there were at least three other players who also have exemptions who were allowed into Aus without incident.

Smartbear said:
Didn’t novax falsely claim he hadn’t visited other countries in the 2 weeks leading up to his trip?
Wasn’t he also found to have been out & about mingling with people despite knowing he’d allegedly tested positive for covid?
That doesn’t sound like the actions of somebody complying with the rules to me? :?
Rob
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Any evidence for that claim? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere and it is contrary to the statement to the court that was read to the Judge earlier from the Aus Gov Minister.
 
Found a reference to it
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/s...tralia-trip-odds-with-declaration-2022-01-11/

Importantly however, Quote
"Three separate social media posts have purported to show Djokovic photos and video of Djokovic in Belgrade and were posted on Dec. 25. It has not been possible to independently verify when and where the images were recorded."

Seems to have stemmed from social media posts and "unnamed anonymous sources".
 
mgrlane said:
Djokovic has been over there ten days? They're not pulling his visa because he is a public health risk. They're pulling it to punish and humiliate him for a private medical decision. And like in this thread people are cheering.
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I suspect that by now the only health risk is to Novax himself, perpetrated by the general Aussie public should he be allowed to turn up and play. :roll:
 
enuff_zed said:
I suspect that by now the only health risk is to Novax himself, perpetrated by the general Aussie public should he be allowed to turn up and play.
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I would be interested to see how the general population see him. Not what the media tell us they think but how the general public feel out there.

I can see why people are angry and I get the whole "If I had to have it, then you have to have it" philosophy of some people- it's human nature and we like things to be fair. But it's not the individual they need to aim their anger at- it's their systems.

I don't even like tennis but I would love to see him play- after all this disruption and still go on and win it.
 
Flyingfifer said:
I totally agree, if the citizens of Aus are having to live under a tyrannical rule then people from abroad shouldn't get exemptions regardless of who they are. But the issue here is the fact that an exemption was granted, he followed the rules in good faith, he done all that was asked of him and was told officially that he had an exemption (as several other players were as well), then after he was on route to the country his exemption was revoked by an embattled regime in order to placate anger. That's absolutely outrageous and in terms of international law I suspect quite dubious (he was given false pretence to visit and detained upon his arrival).
Click to expand...
Issuance of a visa does not guarantee entry
Wording to that effect has been on the application forms for, or the documents accompanying, every visa I have ever been granted.

Immigration Law specialist Christopher Levingston states that being granted an Australian visa is, at best, an invitation to present yourself at the border

Virtually all travel information has something along the lines of
Visa.jpg

Being held at a border if checks need to be made is fairly common practice - the UK does it, as does the US and countless other countries. He was only 'detained' in an immigration hotel/hostel because he wanted to contest the cancellation of his visa - at this point he wasn't allowed to enter Australia but was free to fly out of Australia at any time.
 
Flyingfifer said:
Seems he's been a bad boi and not isolated as he should have done while in Serbia
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Likely he didn't isolate because he didn't have Covid... yeah yeah, don't have proof etc, but does seem likely.

As for the Spain thing he admitted it himself and made a statement that someone cocked up his paperwork... we are in a pandemic and these things happen.... Good job he didn't fudge the paperwork on the way to the USA... they don't take kindly to people who accidentally tick the "are you a terrorist" box.
 
sp3ctre said:
Likely he didn't isolate because he didn't have Covid... yeah yeah, don't have proof etc, but does seem likely.
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That's what I thought when I read it last week but it's not like he is going to admit to it! :rofl:
 
PerryGunn said:
Issuance of a visa does not guarantee entry
Wording to that effect has been on the application forms for, or the documents accompanying, every visa I have ever been granted.

Immigration Law specialist Christopher Levingston states that being granted an Australian visa is, at best, an invitation to present yourself at the border

Virtually all travel information has something along the lines of
Visa.jpg

Being held at a border if checks need to be made is fairly common practice - the UK does it, as does the US and countless other countries. He was only 'detained' in an immigration hotel/hostel because he wanted to contest the cancellation of his visa - at this point he wasn't allowed to enter Australia but was free to fly out of Australia at any time.
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Ive just looked at my 2019/2020 Aus visa and it says nothing of the sort. The closest thing to that is this
"Character requirements
Entering or remaining in Australia is a privilege. You must obey the law and not engage in
criminal activity.
Your visa may be cancelled for a number of reasons, including if you have a substantial
criminal record or behave in a way that is a risk to somebody in the Australian community."

It would have been useful if you provided the source for the image you have presented here.

Being held at the boarder is fairly common but to have your high profile and highly public entry cancelled at the last minute and be detained because a Gov chose to cancel it isnt so normal.
 
Didn't have covid? Then lied.
Had covid? Then didn't isolate and put others at risk.

Either of the above leaves me with zero sympathy for his situation.
 
Flyingfifer said:
Ive just looked at my 2019/2020 Aus visa and it says nothing of the sort.
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Every country seems to have similar text somewhere - it's not necessarily on the visa itself, it can be on the information/guidance forms you're supposed to read when applying

e.g. here's a few from a quick search... (with sources, coz you like that :wink: )

Australian eVisa application pages at https://www.onlinevisaaustralia.org/evisitor
Please note that the eVisitor visa does not guarantee entry — the final decision will be made by the Australian Border Force and Immigration officers upon arrival.

USA visa information at https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/requirements-immigrant-and-nonimmigrant-visas
Issuance of a visa does not guarantee entry to the United States. A visa simply indicates that a U.S. consular officer at an American embassy or consulate has reviewed the application and that officer has determined that the individual is eligible to enter the country for a specific purpose. The CBP Officer at the port-of-entry will conduct an inspection to determine if the individual is eligible for admission under U.S. immigration law.

Singapore visa information at https://www.mfa.gov.sg/Overseas-Mission/London/Important-Information/Visa-Information
A Singapore visa is not an immigration pass. It is a pre-entry permission for the holder of a valid Singapore visa to travel to, and seek entry, into Singapore. The grant of an immigration pass will be determined by the ICA officers at the point of entry. Possession of a valid visa alone does not guarantee entry into Singapore.
 
PerryGunn said:
Flyingfifer said:
Ive just looked at my 2019/2020 Aus visa and it says nothing of the sort.
Click to expand...
Every country seems to have similar text somewhere - it's not necessarily on the visa itself, it can be on the information/guidance forms you're supposed to read when applying

e.g. here's a few from a quick search... (with sources, coz you like that :wink: )

Australian eVisa application pages at https://www.onlinevisaaustralia.org/evisitor
Please note that the eVisitor visa does not guarantee entry — the final decision will be made by the Australian Border Force and Immigration officers upon arrival.

USA visa information at https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/requirements-immigrant-and-nonimmigrant-visas
Issuance of a visa does not guarantee entry to the United States. A visa simply indicates that a U.S. consular officer at an American embassy or consulate has reviewed the application and that officer has determined that the individual is eligible to enter the country for a specific purpose. The CBP Officer at the port-of-entry will conduct an inspection to determine if the individual is eligible for admission under U.S. immigration law.

Singapore visa information at https://www.mfa.gov.sg/Overseas-Mission/London/Important-Information/Visa-Information
A Singapore visa is not an immigration pass. It is a pre-entry permission for the holder of a valid Singapore visa to travel to, and seek entry, into Singapore. The grant of an immigration pass will be determined by the ICA officers at the point of entry. Possession of a valid visa alone does not guarantee entry into Singapore.
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Thanks,

1st one isnt a Aus gov website its a private company offering visa application services.
The other two are legit.

In terms of the visa though its not really the point, does a visa absolutely guarantee you access? No. But if you have a visa and its accurate and true you will get access unless something else comes up at the border. So while your argument is correct is the technical sense it requires the absence of precedent and context.

If you have a visa and its revoked before you arrive... you dont get in. Its not an earth shattering revelation.

The problem here is the conduct of the authorities in granting the application, granting the exemption then cancelling it after he had departed but before he arrived. So the issue happened before he even reached the border in this case.
 
Flyingfifer said:
The problem here is the conduct of the authorities in granting the application
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The authorites dropped the ball, for sure... nobody is denying that. Doesn't change the rest of the facts though... and at the end of the day if they let him play tennis or not, it doesn't really matter.

What he should probably do is put his hands up to either a) getting his documents wrong, or b) socialising while knowingly having Covid... Then he should try and negotiate walking away quietly and not getting banned for 3 years like he may well be (I think he won't though) if he gets booted out.
 
[ref]Flyingfifer[/ref], No he was given the vaccination exemption on medical grounds by the State of Victoria and Tennis Australia, both of whom have a vestige interest in allowing him to play. At immigration it was felt that the exemption was incorrect and thus his visa was cancelled at immigration. The first court ruling for Novak was awarded because procedure hadn't been followed correctly, as he was unable to contact his legal representative, which the Government admitted, it was not about the validity of his medical exemption. At this point the Prime Minister stated that it was up to the State of Victoria to decide and then yes as the court of public opinion started to criticise the Government he interceded stating that it was a federal and immigration issue, which it actually is and at this point there was only one real outcome, which occurred today.

You state that it was not Novak's fault, this is untrue, as he or his agents lied on the visa application, which he has admitted. Also you will know that other players have been expelled using the same medical grounds for exemption, which kinda proves that the exemption was bogus, as in all the unvaccinated players had the same medical excuse not to be vaccinated, yeah right. It's not like they couldn't get in legally, all they had to do was isolate for 14 days :poke:
 
I'm reminded of an old Jasper Carrott sketch where he and his mate went to Old Trafford and his mate started cheering for Birmingham City.
With all the Man U supporters edging towards them, Jasper started punching his mate in the face.
"What are you doing?"
"I'm saving your life!"
Maybe that's what the Oz Government is doing for Novax? :D
 
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