Area under the graph comparing real world performance of engines

[Smartbear]

We know that the 6’s last to many many miles - it would worry me how a re mapped motor will be when it gets older. That really can’t be predicted without a high degree of strip/measure/re builds

Nobody has shown an opinion on the purchase/sale of a re mapped car.
I have a hunch that the value and saleability might be effected. I suspect there’s going to be a few “returns to stock settings” in a few years time

That goes for all models Ron, plenty of remapped twin turbo zeds smoking around.
I’d guess you’re best coming to a conclusion on the desirability of a remapped car after speaking to the owner & forming an opinion on his character.
I’d rather buy a tweaked car from a sensible individual than a standard car from a knuckle dragging mouth breather.
They can do a lot more damage than an optimised ecu
Rob

 

[ronk]

I’m sure that applies to all iterations.

If you were looking at two cars, one of which was enthusiast owned and re mapped and the other bog standard in Mr BMW s showroom which would you buy ?

I don’t think a BMW dealer would attempt nor be allowed by the franchise rules to sell such a car?

 

[enuff_zed]

Nobody has shown an opinion on the purchase/sale of a re mapped car.
I have a hunch that the value and saleability might be effected. I suspect there’s going to be a few “returns to stock settings” in a few years time

I'm not sure how many of those who've remapped on the forum actually intend to sell anyway. (Maybe another graph coming on?)
For me, my intention is to keep it.
But if circumstances did change and I sold it, would I actually have to tell anyone?
A BMW dealer maybe? A forum member, definitely, if they didn't already know. An independent dealer, probably not unless they were a Z4 expert, in which case they'd know the second they drove it. A private sale, well if they'd never had one before, how would they know?

 

[Boltz]

And while on a roll to upset the four pot crowd, everybody (even non-petrolheads) say to me "doesn't the engine sound nice" or from BMW aficionados "it's got the right engine in it, hasn't it." You can't beat that even if your 0-62 time is 0.5 seconds off the pace

You can beat that....drive ability for me not sound

 

[enuff_zed]

OK, lads, one more lap of the subject then we park it and start again on another thread

 

[enuff_zed]

OK then, one last attempt to keep this light.............
I've found a remap that will totally transform an NA motor.

 

[Maria1]

As already said in this thread - horses for courses. We go for sound and overall ambience not outright 0-62 times, which I would argue is increasingly irrelevant in today's world with crowded roads and, in a few short year's time, all manner of humble EVs flashing past us like we are standing still. Again, my preference, and of course accepting horses for courses, would always be to buy a more up-range model rather than uprating as (and unfortunately) the car will always be judged/valued on its original incarnation not its new state. Moreover, many cars that are non-standard sell less well and for less irrespective of the £ spent to achieve that effect.

 

[Anonymous]

A lot of interesting comments, and I agree with the horses for courses point. If, like me, your zed is an occasional car then I think the case for the six is much more compelling. If it's your daily, then the tuned 4 pot does start to make more sense. A compromise either way I'd say.

Well Boys n Girls ..Great Uncle Bulgaria has been diligently cranking the numbers for you..
So found and almost pefect spec N52 engine as in exactly the same as in 30i and on European dyno so similar if not perfect apples for apples..

Then extracted PB N20 re-map and N52 data points and plotted..voila..enjoy...I think we can safely say that based on that theory a N20 re-map easily out runs a bog stock 30i..appreciate that's not stock vs stock..

Surely your torque line for the 30i is wrong there. I'm sure peak NM is comfortably over 300 :?

Torque.jpg

Hello, yes there was translation error, it was getting late when I did it, I've corrected it now

 

[enuff_zed]

As already said in this thread - horses for courses. We go for sound and overall ambience not outright 0-62 times, which I would argue is increasingly irrelevant in today's world with crowded roads and, in a few short year's time, all manner of humble EVs flashing past us like we are standing still. Again, my preference, and of course accepting horses for courses, would always be to buy a more up-range model rather than uprating as (and unfortunately) the car will always be judged/valued on its original incarnation not its new state. Moreover, many cars that are non-standard sell less well and for less irrespective of the £ spent to achieve that effect.

I am in agreement except for one small thing.
I too, have no interest in a 0-62 time. The byproduct of increased power was merely the result of wanting a bigger, flatter torque curve to enable faster, safer overtaking (less exposure time) and to make the car more 'driveable' across the speed range.

 

[Z4M-2006]

Who bought a 4 banger and on morning start thought "that sounds great"...

No one ever would be my answer...

 

[Smartbear]

Who bought a 4 banger and on morning start thought "that sounds great"...

No one ever would be my answer...

That’s just referring to noise again though, the n20 has more going for it than just noise as has been discussed on this thread plenty of times already.
Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Guys guys guys..chill...

To come back to the point of the post..

It stems from a question of how does a re-mapped N20 E89 compare to a 30i E89...

The ancillary question was how does torque and rpm relate to real world performance...

So what it shows is that a re-mapped N20 should out accelerate by a margin a 30i..especially if it’s an auto..under almost any circumstances..

No one was trying to suggest that it could outrun a 35i especially if it’s re-mapped..

The point is that for people who already have a N20 powered car there is a route to, at relatively low cost by tuning standards, get a considerable and character changing amount of power that most likely out performs a 30i version.

Everyone has personal preferences and wishes..I like my yellow car and I can’t now get a 35i with the toys I want in that colour, and, having driven a 35i I found it was not for me...rightly or wrongly I prefer the handling and feel of my car...as others have made their own observations..

If you like the sight of a 6 cylinder engine filling the engine bay great..

If you need to hear an exhaust note at peak rpm of 300Hz vs 200Hz that’s great..

If you need the power of a re-mapped 35i again great..

Just remember there are many people who enjoy their motoring that do not have those needs or value the benefits that other configurations offer..

 

[ronk]

My guess is that the same discussions take place on every other enthusiast based forums!

 

[brillomaster]

imagine how heated the discussions on porsche forums are when the 4pot porsche was brought in... the porsche flat 6 is probably even more iconic than the BMW straight 6!

 

[Anonymous]

My guess is that the same discussions take place on many other enthusiast based forums!

Personally I couldn’t care two figs about what engine anybody has in their Z..I’ve yet to have one get away from me on a Z4 run..

For me I prefer those engines with character, such as 270 degree twins, 180 degree triples and flat 4s and flat 6s, V5,6,8,10,12s..

The issue, as you say, like other forums, is that we don’t want to dis-enfranchise new members by pooh poohing that just cause they don’t have / feel the need for 300+bhp and/or 6 cylinders they are lesser beings..

Rudeness / bullying / contempt are not worthy traits on such a social oriented forum..IMHO..

 

[ronk]

imagine how heated the discussions on porsche forums are when the 4pot porsche was brought in... the porsche flat 6 is probably even more iconic than the BMW straight 6!

Are you sure it was more iconic

 

[Anonymous]

imagine how heated the discussions on porsche forums are when the 4pot porsche was brought in... the porsche flat 6 is probably even more iconic than the BMW straight 6!

One of the many reasons why I’d never have a Porkster...unless you have a 19 pot ceramic/carbon penis enhancer you’d not cut it..

 

[ronk]

.....,a 19 pot ceramic/carbon penis enhancer you’d not cut it..

Ann Summers do Porsche?

 

[Maria1]

I get enuff_zed's point about minimising the TETD time. And having an Auto that's even more of a pain as it takes that just a little more time to kick down and get on with it. And I used to drive like that - overtake, overtake, etc. But nowadays - at least in this part of the world - you might be able to overtake one or two cars but four or five in a queue all doing 44 mph following a Vauxhall Meriva or a 20 year old Ford Fusion? Not easily with similar queues coming from the opposite direction. And, if we are successful, the chances are that a Honda Jazz will then pull out in front of you while you are barrelling along at 80 and then proceed to take 45 seconds to reach 30mph. And, if that doesn't get you, then the next queue (behind a tractor doing 40 mph - the worst of all worlds) will hold you up next. It all seems rather pointless. And the worry I have with the Zed is that isn't special enough to get up at 4am for that blast into the hills on that single June Sunday morning when it isn't raining. So, I drive the Zed in Spain. Great roads and great weather but (unfortunately) kamikaze drivers who really don't give a monkeys about their lives or their cars. i am sure SilverStar and I would be able to compare notes on how many times we have nearly been taken out. Anyway, sorry for mis-using this thread. Moderators - I will self-admonish myself and get a glass of wine.

 

[ronk]

Many have said that engine sound doesn’t matter - but show me a man who doesn’t say Ahhhhh! when he hears a Merlin engine overhead!