Area under the graph comparing real world performance of engines

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Pooltee said:
All the graphs and data under the sun won’t change one thing though.....

The 6 pot regardless of power and torque will always sound better than a 4 pot! :poke:

I miss the straight 6 sound, and feel the car is always going to be a little less special without it.
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Agreed. If I could get my remapped E89 to sound like wifey's 2.5i E85 I'd have the best of everything.
 
Ed Doe said:
Fwiw that's a pretty odd torque curve you've got there - from experience I'd be far more focused on what celtic have done to cause that, rather than wasting your time trying to work out which car is hypothetically quicker based on arbitrary numbers found on the Internet!
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I think as he has now done away with that Celtic map, and some of his arbitrary internet research on this forum has shown it to be a one-off anomaly (in forum circles anyway), then he has the time on his hands to be researching and making these comparisons for the edification of others.
Just comparing 4 supposedly identical N20 E89s that have been remapped, shows that different dynos, different operators and different map providers already create big differences. By adding more and more samples to his pool[ref]Pbondar[/ref] is slowly working to improve his results. I'm finding it a very interesting process and long may it continue.
 
enuff_zed said:
Agreed. If I could get my remapped E89 to sound like wifey's 2.5i E85 I'd have the best of everything.
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You could if you had the 35i / 35is! and way more power & torque too!
 
Silverstar said:
enuff_zed said:
Agreed. If I could get my remapped E89 to sound like wifey's 2.5i E85 I'd have the best of everything.
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You could if you had the 35i / 35is! and way more power & torque too!
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Yeah, but we have corners on Norfolk :poke: :rofl:
 
So all the data is pointing to a tuned 18i 20i being hypothetically quicker well I don't know about you but for me a crucial part of the driving experience is the engine, the sound and silky smoothness makes up a huge part of that. I have driven a 18i and 20i and I just didn't find anything special about them whereas every time I put my foot down in my 30i it makes me smile. If I wanted more power then why bother with the N20 just go to the N54 in the 35i or 35is stock they will still be quicker than any tuned N20 and tuned well that's another ball game. Sure the N20 might be more sensible with better fuel economy and lower running costs but these aren't sensible cars are they? IMHO!
 
Smartbear said:
Pooltee said:
All the graphs and data under the sun won’t change one thing though.....

The 6 pot regardless of power and torque will always sound better than a 4 pot! :poke:

I miss the straight 6 sound, and feel the car is always going to be a little less special without it.
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The straight six does sound great, but most would place power & torque higher than sound as those things emphatically make the driving experience “special”
Rob
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Agree to disagree! i'd rather have a naturally aspirated straight six engine for driving pleasure, even if its slower than a turbo 4 pot.
 
Silverstar said:
So all the data is pointing to a tuned 18i 20i being hypothetically quicker well I don't know about you but for me a crucial part of the driving experience is the engine, the sound and silky smoothness makes up a huge part of that. I have driven a 18i and 20i and I just didn't find anything special about them whereas every time I put my foot down in my 30i it makes me smile. If I wanted more power then why bother with the N20 just go to the N54 in the 35i or 35is stock they will still be quicker than any tuned N20 and tuned well that's another ball game. Sure the N20 might be more sensible with better fuel economy and lower running costs but these aren't sensible cars are they? IMHO!
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For most people a car is usually a compromise & that’s what the 20i is good at, considerably more torque than the na 3litre yet lower running costs than the 3litre twin turbo cars. It fits into a sweet spot in the z4 range & the economy/tax costs further sweeten it.
They definitely punch above their weight & we’re lucky as car enthusiasts that we’ve got such a good choice, their is an ideal car for everyone :thumbsup:
Rob
 
Pooltee said:
All the graphs and data under the sun won’t change one thing though.....

The 6 pot regardless of power and torque will always sound better than a 4 pot! :poke:

I miss the straight 6 sound, and feel the car is always going to be a little less special without it.
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Very very true :thumbsup:

And also,you can go buy a 35i/is and remap them to around 380/400bho respectively,which will blow away any remapped 4 pot,lol :driving: :rofl:

That would be my choice,if buying an e89 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Interesting reading though.
And,you could also map the 30i models to make them quicker.

Interesting to see how they compare though 😉
 
Smartbear said:
Silverstar said:
So all the data is pointing to a tuned 18i 20i being hypothetically quicker well I don't know about you but for me a crucial part of the driving experience is the engine, the sound and silky smoothness makes up a huge part of that. I have driven a 18i and 20i and I just didn't find anything special about them whereas every time I put my foot down in my 30i it makes me smile. If I wanted more power then why bother with the N20 just go to the N54 in the 35i or 35is stock they will still be quicker than any tuned N20 and tuned well that's another ball game. Sure the N20 might be more sensible with better fuel economy and lower running costs but these aren't sensible cars are they? IMHO!
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For most people a car is usually a compromise & that’s what the 20i is good at, considerably more torque than the na 3litre yet lower running costs than the 3litre twin turbo cars. It fits into a sweet spot in the z4 range & the economy/tax costs further sweeten it.
They definitely punch above their weight & we’re lucky as car enthusiasts that we’ve got such a good choice, their is an ideal car for everyone :thumbsup:
Rob
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Sums it up perfectly,Rob :thumbsup:

Horses for courses,as the saying goes.
 
craig3.2 said:
Smartbear said:
Silverstar said:
So all the data is pointing to a tuned 18i 20i being hypothetically quicker well I don't know about you but for me a crucial part of the driving experience is the engine, the sound and silky smoothness makes up a huge part of that. I have driven a 18i and 20i and I just didn't find anything special about them whereas every time I put my foot down in my 30i it makes me smile. If I wanted more power then why bother with the N20 just go to the N54 in the 35i or 35is stock they will still be quicker than any tuned N20 and tuned well that's another ball game. Sure the N20 might be more sensible with better fuel economy and lower running costs but these aren't sensible cars are they? IMHO!
Click to expand...

For most people a car is usually a compromise & that’s what the 20i is good at, considerably more torque than the na 3litre yet lower running costs than the 3litre twin turbo cars. It fits into a sweet spot in the z4 range & the economy/tax costs further sweeten it.
They definitely punch above their weight & we’re lucky as car enthusiasts that we’ve got such a good choice, their is an ideal car for everyone :thumbsup:
Rob
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Sums it up perfectly,Rob :thumbsup:

Horses for courses,as the saying goes.
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It very much is 'horse-power for courses', and we will never all agree, which is probably why the manufacturers make wide ranges.
A 380BHP 35iS will never realise it's potential where I live as it's all minor, twisty roads. In that environment the N20, with its remapped extra torque (not the headline BHP figure) is ideal. But if I lived somewhere that I could utilise the extra power I'd think differently. Not that there are that many salt flats in the UK. :D
Using my 335D as a daily, I have on occasion switched the Idrive display to show the BHP and Torque gauges. Around this neck of the woods I can get the torque one fairly high up if I cane it out of a junction or a swift overtake, but it is hard to get the Horsepower much over halfway up.
 
The six cylinder straight is a more inherently balanced engine and that’s what I particularly like - tuning/remapping can wring the neck of the 4cyl engines and produce good power and torque but they will never be as smooth.
Everyone has their reasons for their choice of engine - I wanted a decent level of power with a nice smooth and balanced engine. If I ever wanted more It would be available.
 
A lot of interesting comments, and I agree with the horses for courses point. If, like me, your zed is an occasional car then I think the case for the six is much more compelling. If it's your daily, then the tuned 4 pot does start to make more sense. A compromise either way I'd say.

Pbondar said:
Well Boys n Girls ..Great Uncle Bulgaria has been diligently cranking the numbers for you..
So found and almost pefect spec N52 engine as in exactly the same as in 30i and on European dyno so similar if not perfect apples for apples..

Then extracted PB N20 re-map and N52 data points and plotted..voila..enjoy...I think we can safely say that based on that theory a N20 re-map easily out runs a bog stock 30i..appreciate that's not stock vs stock..
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Surely your torque line for the 30i is wrong there. I'm sure peak NM is comfortably over 300 :?

Torque.jpg
 
JamieZ4C said:
A lot of interesting comments, and I agree with the horses for courses point. If, like me, your zed is an occasional car then I think the case for the six is much more compelling. If it's your daily, then the tuned 4 pot does start to make more sense. A compromise either way I'd say.

Pbondar said:
Well Boys n Girls ..Great Uncle Bulgaria has been diligently cranking the numbers for you..
So found and almost pefect spec N52 engine as in exactly the same as in 30i and on European dyno so similar if not perfect apples for apples..

Then extracted PB N20 re-map and N52 data points and plotted..voila..enjoy...I think we can safely say that based on that theory a N20 re-map easily out runs a bog stock 30i..appreciate that's not stock vs stock..
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Surely your torque line for the 30i is wrong there. I'm sure peak NM is comfortably over 300 :?

Torque.jpg
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The torque axis looks to be in ft-lb’s, 30i makes 228 of them :thumbsup:
Rob
 
As mentioned earlier if you compare a E89 3.0 to standard E89 18 & 20i then.no comparison the 3.0 is much better but N20s like mine and Pbondar’s are worlds a apart from the standard 18 &. 20i cars. As I said earlier in this thread I have driven both an E89 3.0 and of course my mapped and upgraded E89 18i and I could not justify having a 3.0 six pot that just sounds better because that is all it does is sound better, it certainly does not perform or handle better than a properly upgraded N20. And also a full decat Supersprint exhaust fitted to my N20 coupled with the turbo now spooling up quicker it makes some nice noise👌
 
Boltz said:
As mentioned earlier if you compare a E89 3.0 to standard E89 18 & 20i then.no comparison the 3.0 is much better but N20s like mine and Pbondar’s are worlds a apart from the standard 18 &. 20i cars. As I said earlier in this thread I have driven both an E89 3.0 and of course my mapped and upgraded E89 18i and I could not justify having a 3.0 six pot that just sounds better because that is all it does is sound better, it certainly does not perform or handle better than a properly upgraded N20. And also a full decat Supersprint exhaust fitted to my N20 coupled with the turbo now spooling up quicker it makes some nice noise👌
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Nicely saddled up on the correct horse for your particular course then :thumbsup:
 
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