Are wheels poking out of arches illegal?
- Thread starter tomttengine
- Start date
Wheels/tyres sticking out beyond arches are not permitted. The 'illegality' in the UK relates to several different issues that may get you a MOT failure, Police rectification notice, or even a prohibition notice and prosecution. This will depend largely on the opinion and knowledge of the MOT tester or cop, and in the case of the cop a load of smart arse arguing will generally escalate things from a quiet word/warning to a notice or prosecution!
S.100 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Dangerous condition. If it appears that the wheel/tyre is sticking out and may act as a meat slicer on a pedestrian for example, that can constitute dangerous condition.
S.100 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Dangerous condition. If it appears that the wheel / tyre is coming in to contact with the arch, liner or bodywork that can constitute dangerous condition.
S.63(2) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 also supplemented by European Council Directive (detailed type approval specifications) 78/549/EEC relating to the requirement "for every vehicle to which this regulation applies shall be equipped with wings or other similar fittings to catch, so far as practicable, mud or water thrown up by the rotation of its wheels" . Obviously if you have changed your vehicle so that more spray can kick out then you have not complied "as far as practicable" so no defence really.
As I say you may, or may not get away with it with MOT testers and the Police depending on their personal take, but you also risk giving insurers a reason to decline payout or cover as it's a modification which should be declared and as since it's illegal obviously it wouldn't have been accepted.
S.100 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Dangerous condition. If it appears that the wheel/tyre is sticking out and may act as a meat slicer on a pedestrian for example, that can constitute dangerous condition.
S.100 The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - Dangerous condition. If it appears that the wheel / tyre is coming in to contact with the arch, liner or bodywork that can constitute dangerous condition.
S.63(2) The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 also supplemented by European Council Directive (detailed type approval specifications) 78/549/EEC relating to the requirement "for every vehicle to which this regulation applies shall be equipped with wings or other similar fittings to catch, so far as practicable, mud or water thrown up by the rotation of its wheels" . Obviously if you have changed your vehicle so that more spray can kick out then you have not complied "as far as practicable" so no defence really.
As I say you may, or may not get away with it with MOT testers and the Police depending on their personal take, but you also risk giving insurers a reason to decline payout or cover as it's a modification which should be declared and as since it's illegal obviously it wouldn't have been accepted.
I think the main issue here (and this really isn't intended as a dig) is most people are buying these cars because they drive well - fitting stretched tyres and massive camber to accommodate a nice set of alloys is going to compromise the drive, so it's not really within the 'sphere of experience' of most on this forum.
To be quite honest, looking at the poke on those alloys, and having run the numbers vs OE alloys on willtheyfit, I'd say you would definitely need Coilovers and lower camber arms to get those rears to fit, and probably quite a stretch on the tyres!
Could always look at getting hold of some M Front and rear suspension - the hubs are at different offsets more suited to wider wheels, and although relatively aggressive, you would be able to run 9J fronts 10j rears without any real problems (I run 10J rears without camber mods and quite aggressive tyre sizes on my M). From what I've read, on the M you do need to be running fairly aggressive camber (~3degrees or so) on the front to accommodate a 9J. I really can't imagine the Si would accommodate it without removing the arch liners completely, and running a silly amount of camber.... 10J Rears looks......ambitious!!!
EDIT: It actually looks like the biggest issue is the current offset of the alloys - have you considered milling the centres down a bit to reduce the poke? Looks like you have some room against the specs of the original alloys - the rim of the new alloys will be aprrox. 9mm further away from the suspension strut at the rear? I've never done this before so don't know what would be involved, or how much metal would be safe to remove from the centrebore, but worth a look into surely?
https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506796
Looks like this guy above managed to get 19" 10J alloys to fit the rear, and 8.5J Fronts and he mentions they rub like hell (see quoted extract below) - but looking at the offsets they're much more favourable to working with the 3.0si...!
Sorry, appreciate all this is off on a tangent to your 'is this legal' question, but hopefully a bit helpful?!
:idunno:
To be quite honest, looking at the poke on those alloys, and having run the numbers vs OE alloys on willtheyfit, I'd say you would definitely need Coilovers and lower camber arms to get those rears to fit, and probably quite a stretch on the tyres!
Could always look at getting hold of some M Front and rear suspension - the hubs are at different offsets more suited to wider wheels, and although relatively aggressive, you would be able to run 9J fronts 10j rears without any real problems (I run 10J rears without camber mods and quite aggressive tyre sizes on my M). From what I've read, on the M you do need to be running fairly aggressive camber (~3degrees or so) on the front to accommodate a 9J. I really can't imagine the Si would accommodate it without removing the arch liners completely, and running a silly amount of camber.... 10J Rears looks......ambitious!!!
EDIT: It actually looks like the biggest issue is the current offset of the alloys - have you considered milling the centres down a bit to reduce the poke? Looks like you have some room against the specs of the original alloys - the rim of the new alloys will be aprrox. 9mm further away from the suspension strut at the rear? I've never done this before so don't know what would be involved, or how much metal would be safe to remove from the centrebore, but worth a look into surely?
https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506796
Looks like this guy above managed to get 19" 10J alloys to fit the rear, and 8.5J Fronts and he mentions they rub like hell (see quoted extract below) - but looking at the offsets they're much more favourable to working with the 3.0si...!
Sorry, appreciate all this is off on a tangent to your 'is this legal' question, but hopefully a bit helpful?!
:idunno:
tomttengine
Member
Just in case anyone stumbles upon this forum, today my car has gone in and passed the MOT with these wheels on, so if you believe, the wheels WILL fit! 
final specs are 18x9 and 18x10 et25 with 225/40/18 and 255/35/18. Modifications to make fit were a very small amount of fender flaring (its un-noticeable) and moulding the arches slightly. The rears have a small amount of camber
final specs are 18x9 and 18x10 et25 with 225/40/18 and 255/35/18. Modifications to make fit were a very small amount of fender flaring (its un-noticeable) and moulding the arches slightly. The rears have a small amount of camber
Vijay said:So, do we get to see Mr Wilks paint his face phoenix yellow then?!
I'm more interested in seeing his pink cravat
and pics of this set up please 
Vijay said:So, do we get to see Mr Wilks paint his face phoenix yellow then?!
Not so fast
hardly noticeable arch alterations , slightly cambered & fender flaring aren't often requirements when fitting different wheels , Still no pictures on the thread :wink: though i don't need those to imagine how the car looks .
Each to their own , clearly the op is happy with what he has created , but then so was Mary Shelley :roll:
tomttengine
Member
Hi all, its a bit too dark to take some fresh pictures, but heres some that I took at the garage, sorry for the low res, will upload some better pictures when I get them. Wheels are Work VS-XX
Not sure how to post images so incase they dont work here are the links
http://imgur.com/gallery/gJmFhP8
http://imgur.com/gallery/d57ZeZK
Not sure how to post images so incase they dont work here are the links
http://imgur.com/gallery/gJmFhP8
http://imgur.com/gallery/d57ZeZK
Doesn't look too bad at all 
