Are wheels poking out of arches illegal?

[tomttengine]

I recently purchased some very tasty work vsxx' for my z4 coupe with a very aggressive fitment.
Theyre 18x9 et25 and 18x10 et25.

The question ive got is currently on stock suspension they stick out of the arch about 3/4 of an inch (no tyres yet). Providing I stretch the tyres and the tread is under the arches is this legal or will I need to get some coilovers and add some camber?

Ive tried googling this but no one seems to have a definitive answer or link. Thanks

 

[Armscarf]

My understanding is that you have 30mm to play with for the wheels and the tiers should be contained under the arch so stretching them should be fine.

 

[mr wilks]

Even with stretched tyres 9j et 25 must surely foul the arch liner under any undulating ground / compression / turning of the wheel .
The outer edge of tyre generally catches the liner just behind the arc shaped bumper reflector .
8.5 et33/34 i would class as borderline fitment before fitting stretched tyres so your proposed wheels would be 16mm further out than that
What tyre sizes are you thinking ?

 

[Mister T]

As long as the tread is under the arch it's technically legal. However, if you go mad with the tyre stretch, you can still get in trouble.

 

[mmm-five]

The DVSA advice is a bit flaky, as whilst they give an illustration for what should fail an MOT (i.e. a very stretched tyre) they leave it up to the individual tester to pass or fail.

Personally I wouldn't fit a rim where the tyre didn't fit properly (and provide a bit of protection against kerbing) - my 265 profile on the rear of the 4M on 224s already eats away the arch liners.

 

[Rockhopper]

The Police around here are pretty clued up on stretched tyres and issue rectification notices quite regularly.

 

[tomttengine]

Thanks for all the help so far, i planned to run 225, 40 on the front and 255, 35 on the rears, so hopefully shouldnt be too crazy a fit. Regarding rubbing etc the car isnt lowered as is, and looks to clear everything from my test fit, however im open to trimming/rolling if it does need it. The question was more on the legality rather than if it will actually fit

Does anyone have a link to a gov/police website regarding what makes wheels illegal?

 

[mmm-five]

Does anyone have a link to a gov/police website regarding what makes wheels illegal?

You can search on the Gov/DVSA's MOT blog - that's where I got the pictures from below.

http://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk

Otherwise you'll have to delve into the Construction & Use regulations.

 

[Mister T]

Thanks for all the help so far, i planned to run 225, 40 on the front and 255, 35 on the rears, so hopefully shouldnt be too crazy a fit. Regarding rubbing etc the car isnt lowered as is, and looks to clear everything from my test fit, however im open to trimming/rolling if it does need it. The question was more on the legality rather than if it will actually fit

Does anyone have a link to a gov/police website regarding what makes wheels illegal?

You'll be fine with those tyre sizes, they aren't even close to being stretched.

 

[Ewazix]

There are three things to consider and they only really conflict if you are kidding yourself and are trying to get around regulations that are there simply to avoid danger being caused. Construction and Use Regulations prohibit wheels/tyres sticking out beyond the bodywork (an arch lip will suffice but it's probably going to rub anyway) this is enforced by the Police and can get you prosecuted.

MOT tests based on VOSA guidance can, and do regularly pass matters despite them being an offence under Con & Use and is down to the tester, having a pass does not mean it's not illegal. Why VOSA don't just insist on enforcing Con & Use regulations is beyond me :idunno:
Thirdly there is insurance, if you fit a tyre outside of manufactures recommendations (e.g. by stretching it) that can be classed as a Con & Use offence ("unsuitable fitment") as well as opening up fertile ground for your insurer to refuse/cancel insurance or nullify a claim. If your wheels/tyres stick out then the same applies as it's a Con & Use issue.

Personally I'd either fit properly matched wheels and tyres according to the makers guidance and properly cut/extend the arches, I'd also avoid excessive camber to try and get around the issue as all you are doing is making the car look daft and drive badly. I'm sure someone will post about how many years they have driven on stretched tyres, cut their wheel arch liners, rolled their arches, slammed their camber etc but if the fitment doesn't meet Con & Use Regs and the manufacturer's advice then you are set up for problems.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the help so far, i planned to run 225, 40 on the front and 255, 35 on the rears, so hopefully shouldnt be too crazy a fit. Regarding rubbing etc the car isnt lowered as is, and looks to clear everything from my test fit, however im open to trimming/rolling if it does need it. The question was more on the legality rather than if it will actually fit

Does anyone have a link to a gov/police website regarding what makes wheels illegal?

You'll be fine with those tyre sizes, they aren't even close to being stretched.

I think not..

The 225 falls off the scale below the possible minimum size..you need a 235 at a minimum and preferably 245/255

For the rear 255 is just on the edge of acceptable but the recomended fit is 265/275

https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/charts/tire-width-for-a-wheel-rim-size-chart

https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/tyre-equivalence-advice.html

refer

So your front tyre choice is 'illegal' , your rear tyre choice is 'not good practice'

As to the alloy sizes /offset they fall into the 'not good practice'

The ususal conversation revolves between the 'doom sayers' aka moi and the other group..

For me when you run over the kid who, through no fault of your own, runs out in front of you and is left with life changing injuries, then the insurnace guys will be looking for a way out and you've handed it to them on the plate..

Whether the CPS would persue it under normal circumstances is very unlikely..VOSA advice here refers to the insurrance aspects..

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/stretched-tyres-an-mot-failure/

 

[tomttengine]

I do
Thanks for all the help so far, i planned to run 225, 40 on the front and 255, 35 on the rears, so hopefully shouldnt be too crazy a fit. Regarding rubbing etc the car isnt lowered as is, and looks to clear everything from my test fit, however im open to trimming/rolling if it does need it. The question was more on the legality rather than if it will actually fit

Does anyone have a link to a gov/police website regarding what makes wheels illegal?

You'll be fine with those tyre sizes, they aren't even close to being stretched.

I think not..

The 225 falls off the scale below the possible minimum size..you need a 235 at a minimum and preferably 245/255

For the rear 255 is just on the edge of acceptable but the recomended fit is 265/275

https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/charts/tire-width-for-a-wheel-rim-size-chart

https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/tyre-equivalence-advice.html

refer

So your front tyre choice is 'illegal' , your rear tyre choice is 'not good practice'

As to the alloy sizes /offset they fall into the 'not good practice'

The ususal conversation revolves between the 'doom sayers' aka moi and the other group..

For me when you run over the kid who, through no fault of your own, runs out in front of you and is left with life changing injuries, then the insurnace guys will be looking for a way out and you've handed it to them on the plate..

Whether the CPS would persue it under normal circumstances is very unlikely..VOSA advice here refers to the insurrance aspects..

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/stretched-tyres-an-mot-failure/

The tyres I mentioned were more a stab in the dark rather than set in stone, 235s should still clear with these tyres.

 

[mr wilks]

The tyres I mentioned were more a stab in the dark rather than set in stone, 235s should still clear with these tyres.

I'm the first to applaud anyone pushing the numbers to max fit on these cars but before you waste money fitting stretched tyres ( which then make the sets difficult to sell when you discover they won't fit ) do some more study & research on here .
I will paint my face phoenix yellow & invest in a pink cravate if 235 40 18 on a 9j et 25 doesn't rub the minute you turn the wheel .
For reference my current Si coupe is on stock suspension , my front set up is 235 35 19 ( 5-6mm which matters when you talk mm difference between catching or not) on a 8.5j et 35rim , 99% of miles + driving no issue but on the very odd occasion when travelling on country roads at speed on certain dips / bends / compression there is a rub , no wear to liner but it rubs .
So crunching numbers for your proposed set up of 235 40 18 on 9j et 25 you will have virtually identical rolling circumference but the outer edge of the tyre will be 16mm towards the arch more than mine just no way you will avoid ripping the liner clean out .
I really don't like to be another voice saying don't as seeing the pics once tyred & fitted would be a laugh but on this occasion i would advise to sell the wheels on without even trying them

 

[Dav the wheel nut]

[youtube]nqqZ28m8uCo[/youtube]

 

[tomttengine]

The tyres I mentioned were more a stab in the dark rather than set in stone, 235s should still clear with these tyres.

I'm the first to applaud anyone pushing the numbers to max fit on these cars but before you waste money fitting stretched tyres ( which then make the sets difficult to sell when you discover they won't fit ) do some more study & research on here .
I will paint my face phoenix yellow & invest in a pink cravate if 235 40 18 on a 9j et 25 doesn't rub the minute you turn the wheel .
For reference my current Si coupe is on stock suspension , my front set up is 235 35 19 ( 5-6mm which matters when you talk mm difference between catching or not) on a 8.5j et 35rim , 99% of miles + driving no issue but on the very odd occasion when travelling on country roads at speed on certain dips / bends / compression there is a rub , no wear to liner but it rubs .
So crunching numbers for your proposed set up of 235 40 18 on 9j et 25 you will have virtually identical rolling circumference but the outer edge of the tyre will be 16mm towards the arch more than mine just no way you will avoid ripping the liner clean out .
I really don't like to be another voice saying don't as seeing the pics once tyred & fitted would be a laugh but on this occasion i would advise to sell the wheels on without even trying them

Hey, im afraid these wheels have been a dream for me the last few years and theres absolutely 0 chance of me selling them. If you check out our car on the fitment industries gallery you can see people run far crazier setups with very little modifications. As mentioned, if I have any rubbing I was gladly trim the lining/ add coilovers

 

[mr wilks]

The tyres I mentioned were more a stab in the dark rather than set in stone, 235s should still clear with these tyres.

I'm the first to applaud anyone pushing the numbers to max fit on these cars but before you waste money fitting stretched tyres ( which then make the sets difficult to sell when you discover they won't fit ) do some more study & research on here .
I will paint my face phoenix yellow & invest in a pink cravate if 235 40 18 on a 9j et 25 doesn't rub the minute you turn the wheel .
For reference my current Si coupe is on stock suspension , my front set up is 235 35 19 ( 5-6mm which matters when you talk mm difference between catching or not) on a 8.5j et 35rim , 99% of miles + driving no issue but on the very odd occasion when travelling on country roads at speed on certain dips / bends / compression there is a rub , no wear to liner but it rubs .
So crunching numbers for your proposed set up of 235 40 18 on 9j et 25 you will have virtually identical rolling circumference but the outer edge of the tyre will be 16mm towards the arch more than mine just no way you will avoid ripping the liner clean out .
I really don't like to be another voice saying don't as seeing the pics once tyred & fitted would be a laugh but on this occasion i would advise to sell the wheels on without even trying them

Hey, im afraid these wheels have been a dream for me the last few years and theres absolutely 0 chance of me selling them. If you check out our car on the fitment industries gallery you can see people run far crazier setups with very little modifications. As mentioned, if I have any rubbing I was gladly trim the lining/ add coilovers

Fair enough, hope you prove me wrong & are successful , maybe a 235-35-18 might be a better place to start from on front?

 

[tomttengine]

I'm the first to applaud anyone pushing the numbers to max fit on these cars but before you waste money fitting stretched tyres ( which then make the sets difficult to sell when you discover they won't fit ) do some more study & research on here .
I will paint my face phoenix yellow & invest in a pink cravate if 235 40 18 on a 9j et 25 doesn't rub the minute you turn the wheel .
For reference my current Si coupe is on stock suspension , my front set up is 235 35 19 ( 5-6mm which matters when you talk mm difference between catching or not) on a 8.5j et 35rim , 99% of miles + driving no issue but on the very odd occasion when travelling on country roads at speed on certain dips / bends / compression there is a rub , no wear to liner but it rubs .
So crunching numbers for your proposed set up of 235 40 18 on 9j et 25 you will have virtually identical rolling circumference but the outer edge of the tyre will be 16mm towards the arch more than mine just no way you will avoid ripping the liner clean out .
I really don't like to be another voice saying don't as seeing the pics once tyred & fitted would be a laugh but on this occasion i would advise to sell the wheels on without even trying them

Hey, im afraid these wheels have been a dream for me the last few years and theres absolutely 0 chance of me selling them. If you check out our car on the fitment industries gallery you can see people run far crazier setups with very little modifications. As mentioned, if I have any rubbing I was gladly trim the lining/ add coilovers

Fair enough, hope you prove me wrong & are successful , maybe a 235-35-18 might be a better place to start from on front?

Thanks for the advice, any idea what I would pair them with on the rears? The 255 - 35 are obviously too tall for that setup

 

[kis]

Are they like these? 8)

https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1441366

 

[mr wilks]

Thanks for the advice, any idea what I would pair them with on the rears? The 255 - 35 are obviously too tall for that setup

I hadn't even considered the rears as the fronts would be beyond the line for me but as you ask , 10j et 25 on a rear isn't going to look well at all i accept your dream is having these wheels on your ZC but the numbers can't hide the inevitable & imo they will stick out beyond the visually acceptable to the point of being clownish .
If you insist on cracking on with them possibly a 255 30 or 265 30 tyre but it won't be pretty .
I have a 9.5j et 35 rear on my Si coupe , i wouldn't want a 16mm spacer behind them but if you are happy to alter the cars geo to accommodate then i can't comment as its not something i have any experience of .

 

[mr wilks]

Are they like these? 8)

https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1441366

If they are then that's a great place to work back from as they are fitted to a ZM not a Si so that works in favour of the M with regards width & offset