An expensive month and I've still got the same steering issue, what next?

C

Chasabi

Member
 West Yorkshire
Well it's been an expensive month :|

I've been living with a steering instability issue almost all year (since February) but after finding an oil leak and nearing my Inspection due date, I decided to get it all sorted at once and so I took the car into B&M Care in Pudsey.

First off I decided to have a proper wheel alignment done. I took it to Kwik Fit for a wheel alignment in July but I was never confident that they had done it correctly so I had B&M Care do it. That cost me £100 but they were pretty good and also discovered that my rear tyres were down to the cords on the inside edges :o I got some new tyres fitted the next day, that cost me £230.

The following day they did the Inspection 2 (£300) and had a look at the oil leak, which turned out to be coming from the oil filter housing. A new gasket and a few hours labour (another £120) and that is fixed. There's no issues to report following the inspection either :thumbsup:

So last week they started to look into the steering wheel issue. At first they said they couldn't feel anything wrong with the steering but when I insisted that there was a problem so they got a different guy to take it out. He called up a few hours later and said he could feel it doing what I had described. They've now had the car since last Friday morning and have just called to say that they cannot find anything wrong! :headbang: :headbang:

I'm gutted. I really thought these guys would crack the case and I could get back to being a happy Zed owner! He said that there is a tiny bit of play in one of the wishbones but he isn't confident that this is the cause of the issue. He said that its so slight that it would still pass an MOT. I'm reluctant to get this replaced if it doesn't need replacing, I've already spent £750 on it this month. Where do I go from here? Any ideas?

I just want to be able to enjoy driving it again. For the past 9 months it's not been fun at all :cry:
 
Sorry, that would be a good idea wouldn't it :D

The steering wheel pulls left and right when I'm on a straight road. It's not really noticeable until I go above 50 MPH. It's worse at about 70 MPH. When cornering, especially on long motorway corners, the steering feels heavy and it feels like it is trying to recentre the wheels.

I don't have runflat tyres and this wasn't an issue until months after I bought the Zed. I have to point that out because some people have tried telling me that this is normal behaviour for this type of car/wide wheels/uneven roads/etc. The car drove perfectly for 6-7 months until this issue started.
 
Here is a video I recorded before it went into the garage.

https://youtu.be/oYYhX2iIJ1g

It's not the best quality but you can clearly see the steering wheel moving quite a lot. I'm not moving this at all, only occasionally correcting it so that I don't end up in a tree! This is on a smooth road doing around 70 MPH.
 
firebobby said:
Have you checked your tyre pressures ?
Click to expand...

Yes bud. I've done all of the common sense things like checking tyres pressures, tracking/wheel alignment, having the wheels/tyres balanced.

I would like to try some different wheels and see if the issue goes away. Unfortunately I don't have access to another set of wheels.
 
Has the car got spacers on the wheels
Just cluchin at strings here
Or could be something do with the steering rack
 
Could it be because the wheels fitted to the car are the incorrect ET to what it should have fitted ?
 
Not an expert but a clue could be something to do with the tyres being that worn on the inside. Were they originaly on the front and then moved to the rear at some point. If so most likely tracking or has someone mixed up the direction on the tyres.
 
They are factory Z4m wheels. I believe they are perfect fit for my Zed. They are also staggered so the rear wheels have never been on the front and vice versa. I also don't have any spacers fitted plus the car drove fine for about 2 months with these wheels/tyres fitted.

I assumed the tyres being worn on the inside was due to the rear having too much camber. That should have been corrected now by B&M Care. I picked the car up about 2 hours ago and drove home. I must say it felt awful to drive when compared to the courtesy I've been driving for the last 4 days.

When I spoke to the guy at the garage he said there is a slight bit of play in the front bottom arm on both sides but he can't say for certain that this is the cause because it is only slight. Besides that might be a job for after Xmas, he said it would be £600 to replace both bottom arms (wishbones?) and bushes :O
 
Chasabi said:
When I spoke to the guy at the garage he said there is a slight bit of play in the front bottom arm on both sides but he can't say for certain that this is the cause because it is only slight. Besides that might be a job for after Xmas, he said it would be £600 to replace both bottom arms (wishbones?) and bushes :O
Click to expand...

My symptom with worn wishbone bushes was more of a vibration, like an unbalanced wheel in a set speed range. There was only a slight tear on one of the inner bushes, that cured it.
£200 for the arms and rear bushes, a days work taking it slow to save you £400? It's 2 hours work for a pro so his hourly rate is pretty high!
 
Chasabi said:
They are factory Z4m wheels. I believe they are perfect fit for my Zed. They are also staggered so the rear wheels have never been on the front and vice versa. I also don't have any spacers fitted plus the car drove fine for about 2 months with these wheels/tyres fitted.

I assumed the tyres being worn on the inside was due to the rear having too much camber. That should have been corrected now by B&M Care. I picked the car up about 2 hours ago and drove home. I must say it felt awful to drive when compared to the courtesy I've been driving for the last 4 days.

When I spoke to the guy at the garage he said there is a slight bit of play in the front bottom arm on both sides but he can't say for certain that this is the cause because it is only slight. Besides that might be a job for after Xmas, he said it would be £600 to replace both bottom arms (wishbones?) and bushes :O
Click to expand...


Thats what i mean..

The ET for an M and a non M wheel is different...
 
Scooba_Steve said:
My symptom with worn wishbone bushes was more of a vibration, like an unbalanced wheel in a set speed range. There was only a slight tear on one of the inner bushes, that cured it. £200 for the arms and rear bushes, a days work taking it slow to save you £400? It's 2 hours work for a pro so his hourly rate is pretty high!
Click to expand...

Tempting. What sort of skill level are we talking? Any special tools required? I'm confident with a spanner in hand but I've only ever changed my brake discs and pads.
 
Chasabi said:
First off I decided to have a proper wheel alignment done. I took it to Kwik Fit for a wheel alignment in July but I was never confident that they had done it correctly so I had B&M Care do it. That cost me £100 but they were pretty good and also discovered that my rear tyres were down to the cords on the inside edges :o I got some new tyres fitted the next day, that cost me £230.
Click to expand...

So you paid £100 for wheel alignment done with old tyres that were unevenly worn down to the chords :?
Shouldn't it have been done after the new tyres were fitted ?

Were the tyres part worn on the alloys when you fitted them to your car ?
If so were they evenly worn or already slightly scrubbed on insides ?
If they were M sized have you stuck to those sizes ?
Front tyres / ? Make ? Size ? Wear evenly ? Tread depth ?
 
How worn are your tyres?
The steering is very sensitive on the Z.
So based on all parts on the front wish bones being in A1 condition replace the front tyres and recheck the tracking. Tracking would be impaired severely with tyres ready for the skip as Mr Wilks says.

Rear lollipops can be replaced and are a major wear item on front suspension The allow the whole front geometry to move/change if worn
How to:
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46749
 
Chasabi said:
Tempting. What sort of skill level are we talking? Any special tools required? I'm confident with a spanner in hand but I've only ever changed my brake discs and pads.
Click to expand...

£400 for a day's work, no-brainer for me! You'll need to be able to safely lift the entire front axle - my method is with ramps and axle stands.
You'll probably need a ball joint splitter and a small sledge hammer; a good set of spanners (I think the inner bush was a 19mm nut and on the OS there was very limited access).
Can do ARB bushes while you're there along with drop links too.
 
mr wilks said:
Chasabi said:
So you paid £100 for wheel alignment done with old tyres that were unevenly worn down to the chords :?
Shouldn't it have been done after the new tyres were fitted ?

Were the tyres part worn on the alloys when you fitted them to your car ?
If so were they evenly worn or already slightly scrubbed on insides ?
If they were M sized have you stuck to those sizes ?
Front tyres / ? Make ? Size ? Wear evenly ? Tread depth ?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Apologies for the delayed reply. I went straight to bed after watching The Walking Dead :)

I didn't think the condition of the tyres affected the wheel alignment? I'm no expert though. In any case, when I picked the car up last night and got the print out of the work done, it does mention "checked tracking again, all Ok" - this is after I've had new tyres fitted on the rear so I would hope the tracking/alignment is now correct.

I got the wheels from a forum member almost exactly a year ago. The tyres were pretty much brand new Conti Sport all round. Fronts are still the same tyres (225/45) and have about 4-5mm tread. Wear looks even. I went for a slightly smaller profile on the rear which are now 255/35 Hankook Ventus v12's. I plan on doing the same on the front when they need changing i.e. 225/40

I put these wheels/tyres on the car at the back end of November last year. The issues I am now experiencing only presented around Feb/Mar of this year. This is why I wouldn't have expected the current wheels/tyres to be an issue as I had 4-5 months of smooth, happy motoring with these on.
 
Toe-side said:
How worn are your tyres?
The steering is very sensitive on the Z.
So based on all parts on the front wish bones being in A1 condition replace the front tyres and recheck the tracking. Tracking would be impaired severely with tyres ready for the skip as Mr Wilks says.

Rear lollipops can be replaced and are a major wear item on front suspension The allow the whole front geometry to move/change if worn
How to:
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46749
Click to expand...

That's a good write up. I've also watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BImvxYYWLM4 which says that it is a similar process on the Z4. I think I could tackle the wishbones myself really. Just need to buy some axle stands.

As I mention above; I should be good in terms of tyre wear and wheel alignment now. I'm starting to think it is the wishbone bushes that need replacing. I can't understand why the garage has quoted me to replace the whole wishbone if it's just the bushes that are worn. Maybe because it's easier to replace the whole wishbone than to try replacing the bushes?
 
Apologies for the delayed reply. I went straight to bed after watching The Walking Dead :)

I didn't think the condition of the tyres affected the wheel alignment? I'm no expert though. In any case, when I picked the car up last night and got the print out of the work done, it does mention "checked tracking again, all Ok" - this is after I've had new tyres fitted on the rear so I would hope the tracking/alignment is now correct.

I got the wheels from a forum member almost exactly a year ago. The tyres were pretty much brand new Conti Sport all round. Fronts are still the same tyres (225/45) and have about 4-5mm tread. Wear looks even. I went for a slightly smaller profile on the rear which are now 255/35 Hankook Ventus v12's. I plan on doing the same on the front when they need changing i.e. 225/40

I put these wheels/tyres on the car at the back end of November last year. The issues I am now experiencing only presented around Feb/Mar of this year. This is why I wouldn't have expected the current wheels/tyres to be an issue as I had 4-5 months of smooth, happy motoring with these on.
Click to expand...


The condition of the tyres plays a massive part when doing a wheel alignment, it could knock the geometry out by quite a bit if your tyres are unevenly worn to start.

BUT....

Am I right in reading that you are running 225/45/18 up front and a 255/35/18 at the rear?

Was the alignment done with this tyre set up?

Also, just to point out... your handling issue only started in February? Was this about the time when you changed the rear tyres?

Cheers
Dan
 
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