An expensive month and I've still got the same steering issue, what next?

coupedan said:
The condition of the tyres plays a massive part when doing a wheel alignment, it could knock the geometry out by quite a bit if your tyres are unevenly worn to start.

BUT....

Am I right in reading that you are running 225/45/18 up front and a 255/35/18 at the rear?

Was the alignment done with this tyre set up?

Also, just to point out... your handling issue only started in February? Was this about the time when you changed the rear tyres?

Cheers
Dan
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Hi Dan, thanks for commenting.

That is the setup I am running for now. The alignment was originally done with 225/45/18 up front and 255/40/18 rear. That's when they advised that my rear tyres needed replacing. After replacing the rear tyres the alignment was re-checked. So to answer your question, the alignment was re-done with my current tyre setup.

The handling issue started in Feb/Mar. I put the new rear tyres on last week. When the issues started I had not changed anything or added anything new to the car for months.
 
Often the bushes on the rear axle are overlooked when trying to find a steering problem. My bet is that the garage have only checked the front axle, worth calling them to confirm.

If your rears were down to the chords then i would suggest you start looking there. Particularly are the rear trailing arm bushes which are a known weak point and a darn site cheaper than the front wishbones. Even though the feeling of self steering is being transferred through the steering wheel it doesn't necessarily have to be the front axle causing it.
 
simonlpearce said:
Often the bushes on the rear axle are overlooked when trying to find a steering problem. My bet is that the garage have only checked the front axle, worth calling them to confirm.

If your rears were down to the chords then i would suggest you start looking there. Particularly are the rear trailing arm bushes which are a known weak point and a darn site cheaper than the front wishbones. Even though the feeling of self steering is being transferred through the steering wheel it doesn't necessarily have to be the front axle causing it.
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Thanks for the advice. Worth a mention I suppose. I'm going to call them later today to ask about the wheel alignment so I'll mention the RTAB. I would have thought they had checked everything. They are a well respected BMW indy. A lot of guys on this very forum recommend them. I'd be disappointed if they didn't know what they were doing.
 
If you're thinking of doing the RTABs £40 will get you a poly set, £30 the tool to remove and fit - defo worth doing yourself as it's a 2 hour job max.
 
Personally, if it was me I would replace all arms, bushes etc.. I know you have spent cash trying to find the issue but it sounds like you're trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

You can get a Meyle HD kit from Ebay, this is the Drop links, Front control arms, FTABS and then you can buy Anti-Roll bar bushes pretty cheaply. I think total amount for this lot is around £300.

I would then look at the RTABS if this does not solve your issue. Then after that, I would do track rods and track rod ends on the steering rack - but save this until last as you will need another wheel alignment after.
 
coupedan said:
Personally, if it was me I would replace all arms, bushes etc.. I know you have spent cash trying to find the issue but it sounds like you're trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

You can get a Meyle HD kit from Ebay, this is the Drop links, Front control arms, FTABS and then you can buy Anti-Roll bar bushes pretty cheaply. I think total amount for this lot is around £300.

I would then look at the RTABS if this does not solve your issue. Then after that, I would do track rods and track rod ends on the steering rack - but save this until last as you will need another wheel alignment after.
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I'm starting to think this. I just need to get the price down. I'm not paying my Indy another £600 to change the control arms and bushes. Would rather have a go myself.

Is this the correct kit? Does this include everything you mention? http://goo.gl/GTXTzW

I'll look at getting some ARB bushes and doing the RTAB bushes too. If the damn thing is still pulling all over the place I'm going to sell it :headbang:
 
I'm starting to think this. I just need to get the price down. I'm not paying my Indy another £600 to change the control arms and bushes. Would rather have a go myself.

Is this the correct kit? Does this include everything you mention? http://goo.gl/GTXTzW

I'll look at getting some ARB bushes and doing the RTAB bushes too. If the damn thing is still pulling all over the place I'm going to sell it :headbang:
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Yeah that's the one, I got these ones - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4-E85-E86-CONTROL-ARMS-WISHBONE-BUSH-MEYLE-HD-C813-/190933378791
and the drop links - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-E46-316i-318i-323i-328i-330i-330D-MEYLE-HD-FRONT-LINK-ROD-C729-/190712589747?hash=item2c675b2db3:m:mlorFBS1nR_7KUHEsVti9Qg

But I decided to go down the polybush route for the ARBs, FTABs and RTABs.

I changed the whole front end stuff on my drive.. It was about a days work what with axle stands and jacks etc.
But saved a fortune by doing so.
 
Post a copy of your settings before you go and change everything, it could be something as simple as incorrect geometry settings used.

I'm on 224's and until I was set to M settings the car never seemed right, I have changed all of the other bits anyway but I would check this first!
 
Honestly i don't see why you wouldn't start at the rear end with the rear trailing arm bushes. There was a known issue at the rear which caused the wheels to scrub down to dangerous levels. OK part of it could have been poor alignment, but it is at least worth ticking this off first. Rear trailing arms as mentioned above can be done for £70 DIY, which is a darn site cheaper than £300+ which isn't even for the complete front axle. If that doesn't fix the problem then go about speculatively replacing parts until one day it goes away.

By that logic you might as well do the suspension and top mounts whilst at it as there is nothing saying these aren't the issue. Not to mention the bush on the steering UJ.
 
simonlpearce said:
Honestly i don't see why you wouldn't start at the rear end with the rear trailing arm bushes. There was a known issue at the rear which caused the wheels to scrub down to dangerous levels. OK part of it could have been poor alignment, but it is at least worth ticking this off first. Rear trailing arms as mentioned above can be done for £70 DIY, which is a darn site cheaper than £300+ which isn't even for the complete front axle. If that doesn't fix the problem then go about speculatively replacing parts until one day it goes away.

By that logic you might as well do the suspension and top mounts whilst at it as there is nothing saying these aren't the issue. Not to mention the bush on the steering UJ.
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Because the garage pointed out that there is a slight play in the control arm bushings. It will only get worse so needs doing anyway IMO. If I do the control arms and bushings and that solves it I won't have spent £70 on the RTAB. If I do the RTAB first, whether it resolves it or not, I've still got to get the control arms done anyway. That's how I'm looking at it anyway.

I'll probably just do both anyway, as well as the ARB bushes. The car has near 80k miles.
 
This is a well documented issue with Z4s that no one seems to have a definative answer for. There are a number of threads like this one for example http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8802
I am currently having the same issue as you have had wheels balanced and alignment done. Swapped to my winter wheels which were rebalanced before fitting and also I replaced the control arm bushes. So far nothing has made any difference :headbang:
 
I have a small amount of movement in the steering wheel, which I was showing my missus at the weekend. Not to the extent yours is though.

What I would advise is getting your wheels checked for any buckles.

I had 19's on before I removed them for refurbishment and the company picked up on a few buckles which were causing a lot of movement in the steering wheel.

If it didn't do it before you put the 224's on, I would say they have buckles in somewhere and you won't get rid of it until they're fixed.

I've replaced front wishbone rear bushes, rear trailing arm bushes, ARB bushes, track rods and ends and droplinks all round, so it can't be anything to do with those.

I honestly think the electric steering is simply very sensitive and tyre choice/wheel choice/wear and tear on the rack is causing this.
 
Does yours only appear above 60mph? I'm sure the EPS starts to do something at 62mph (100kph for ze Germans) which causes it. Feels like its trying to re-center itself, like an oscillation? If so, me too :( E86, non RFTs, fresh geo and new lollipops
 
jeffers said:
Does yours only appear above 60mph? I'm sure the EPS starts to do something at 62mph (100kph for ze Germans) which causes it. Feels like its trying to re-center itself, like an oscillation? If so, me too :( E86, non RFTs, fresh geo and new lollipops
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I wouldn't call it oscillation but I suppose it's like oscillation. Check out the video on the first page, its more like a random pulling to the left or right. At higher speeds it throws in a bit of vibration for a bit more fun!

It's slightly noticeable around 50mph but gets worse at 60mph and it's not even worth going anywhere near 70+ :(

Have you changed the rear trailing arm bushes or tried a different set of wheels?
 
ben g said:
If it didn't do it before you put the 224's on, I would say they have buckles in somewhere and you won't get rid of it until they're fixed.
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It didn't do it before but it didn't do it for months after I fitted the 224's.
 
Chasabi said:
ben g said:
If it didn't do it before you put the 224's on, I would say they have buckles in somewhere and you won't get rid of it until they're fixed.
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It didn't do it before but it didn't do it for months after I fitted the 224's.
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Did you hit any potholes or dodgy patches of road around the time it started happening?
 
ben g said:
Did you hit any potholes or dodgy patches of road around the time it started happening?
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Honestly couldn't tell you mate. It started about 9 months ago. As far as I can recall, it just started randomly. I've had the tyres balanced since then, wouldn't that show up a buckled wheel when they put it on the machine?
 
Chasabi said:
Toe-side said:
How worn are your tyres?
The steering is very sensitive on the Z.
So based on all parts on the front wish bones being in A1 condition replace the front tyres and recheck the tracking. Tracking would be impaired severely with tyres ready for the skip as Mr Wilks says.

Rear lollipops can be replaced and are a major wear item on front suspension The allow the whole front geometry to move/change if worn
How to:
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=46749
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That's a good write up. I've also watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BImvxYYWLM4 which says that it is a similar process on the Z4. I think I could tackle the wishbones myself really. Just need to buy some axle stands.

As I mention above; I should be good in terms of tyre wear and wheel alignment now. I'm starting to think it is the wishbone bushes that need replacing. I can't understand why the garage has quoted me to replace the whole wishbone if it's just the bushes that are worn. Maybe because it's easier to replace the whole wishbone than to try replacing the bushes?
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Wishbone bushes are dead easy.

I had both done in under an hour on my M.
 
Hi Chasabi,

I had a very similar issue that was so depressing I nearly sold the Z. I did the tracking, lollipops etc, all to no avail. In the end I changed the front tyres as a last resort and 'hey presto' issue resolved. I am now running Goodyear Eagle F1s as opposed to the Pirellis I had before. These also had 4-5mm of tread, but the tyre walls had become so brittle there was literally no give in them, causing the handling yo be all over the place. The tyre fitter went straight through each sidewall when trying to remove them !!

I would definitely look at running the car with a different set of wheels / tyres. Where are you based as I am sure a friendly local forum member will offer to let you try their wheels ?

Cheers, James
 
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