Advice

[MACK]

Whats this lads budget?

Didn't realise me wanting a 2.0 could cause so much debate even though it is both entertaining and nice to have people's opinion my budget is roughly £5500 to buy that way it leaves me enough for running and maintaining not to mention insuring it :thumbsdown:
Cheers.
Matt.

Yes sorry about that, did carry on a bit that!

Did you run a quote of the 2.2? They have the same insurance group as the 2.0 so should in theory be very similar to insure. I get the 2.2's are all pre facelift and you will probably want the clear headlights, sport seats etc of a post car, but in terms of the actual drive they are nicer, it might be worth you trying to find one of each to give a go and see what you think, some 2.2 even have the sports seats.

Fuel economy may also be an issue if your doing alot of miles as all the i6 engines whether a 2.2 or a 3.0 generally return within 1mpg of each other (the post cars with the newer engines are 2-3mpg better than the earlier cars.) Which is about 5-7 less than the 2.0 in the real world. However if insurance is the only real obstacle here it might be worth biting the bullet (I hate to say) on this as your budget would get you a nice post facelift 2.5, again might be worth trying one and comparing to a 2.0 you may decide its worth the extra premium!

An inspection is a good idea on any car if your not well up on cars etc but this is particularly true when it come to a vehicle with a major weak spot. I'm not trying to come across as hating on the 2.0 just for the fun of it but that engine is a nightmare for issues and nowhere near as nice to drive as the i6 alternatives, just go on any 3 series forum for confirmation of that. That said if there was say a £2,500 price differential between a 2.0 and a 2.5 for example I would understand folks choosing the 2.0 but right now you can pick up 2.0 and 2.5 for very similar money, certainly within your budget and the 2.2 is even cheaper in many cases. One more factor to consider is if you did go for a 2.5 over a 2.0 they come with a higher level of standard equipment from the factory and tend to have been optioned up a bit more as well.

Genuinely though, whatever you pick the E85 itself is a great little car in itself and I hope you enjoy!

 

[Usel]

And that would be insuring it with a little black box hmm on a 2.5 I don't think so
Feels like I'm 17 again with the prices they quote me.

How are you doing these quotes? Make sure you use actual car registrations and say you already own the car as in today's date.
Go through all the big 3 compare sites and then pick the best 3 and phone them direct. If they give you silly quotes over the phone then tell them that you have a quote from a comparison site of x amount and they may even under cut that quote.

Try prefacelift and facelift models and differing trim levels. You may find a 3 litre auto facelift SE in blue may be cheapest for example.

When buying my Passat a year ago I did quotes on the car I wanted. After viewing the car I walked away as the condition was terrible and found another car the next day. Car was exactly the same colour and engine, mileage etc but the car I found didn't have leather seats and had smaller alloys so was basically a trim level down. The insurance quote was £100 higher. Called out the company on why and they couldn't give a reason. I argued and got the price to £50 lower than the original price on the car I walked away from.

All I'm saying is don't give up. Sometimes the wind blowing a different direction can change an insurance quote!

 

[MT94]

I have tried all the different options and get quotes of £1200 with a black box for a 2.2 vs £800 for a 2 litre without a box would have thought at 22 and 5 years driving it would start to come down by now I do get that quotes change for no reason at all same car same reg can go up by £500 from one hour to the next it's very vague.
Kinda worried about getting the 2 litre now as I need it to use everyday for getting to work :|

 

[MerBrook]

Hi MT94, my son who is also a member on here, Billabongmac, bought his zed at a similar age to you. He purchased an E85 2.5 face lift with auto. I know this is probably over your budget but there are similarities regarding the insurance quotes etc. He found that the only way to make the insurance costs acceptable was to go for the auto model, which he didn't mind as he has a lengthy commute and suited his needs.
He also found Tesco's to be the cheapest insurer (although they don't appear to accept mods) for him and has stuck with them for the last few years now.
Finally have you included one or both of your parents in your insurance quotes as this always seems to bring the cost of the insurance down for whatever reason.

All the best with your search.

 

[ESP]

Oh I see you want to play who's dick is bigger! Didn't see that coming, honest! Is that list supposed to impress me? Even if I did believe it there's some dubious choices on there and just because you may/may not have owned something doesn't change a thing in this argument. Its like saying every Premiership footballer is the oracle of supercars. Its Pathetic and predictable but as we are playing this game as a lowly qualified vehicle engineer with a career in vehicle development I guess I'm not qualified to discuss this with you then, I'm OVER QUALIFIED! I guess I will take your advice and stick to talking to people of my own level, you know folks with suitable maturity and intellect who aren't so thin skinned and easy to upset. A word of advice, if your going to talk BS and try to brag at least be good at it and don't get caught out lying! Change your signature Mr Audi A1 TFSI Sline!!!

But just so we're clear, I still don't see anything you've written that forms a credible argument for a current buyer to choose a 2.0 over a 2.2/2.5 or 3.0! If anything your ramblings just reinforce your clueless, or maybe you've got distracted from the actual point of all of this whilst curtain twitching at your imaginary R8!

I'll leave you to get back to playing with your imaginary toys,!

"imaginary toys"


Lol What a legend

Guess i better go call the AA to fix my "unreliable" Z4, see ya

 

[MACK]

Oh I see you want to play who's dick is bigger! Didn't see that coming, honest! Is that list supposed to impress me? Even if I did believe it there's some dubious choices on there and just because you may/may not have owned something doesn't change a thing in this argument. Its like saying every Premiership footballer is the oracle of supercars. Its Pathetic and predictable but as we are playing this game as a lowly qualified vehicle engineer with a career in vehicle development I guess I'm not qualified to discuss this with you then, I'm OVER QUALIFIED! I guess I will take your advice and stick to talking to people of my own level, you know folks with suitable maturity and intellect who aren't so thin skinned and easy to upset. A word of advice, if your going to talk BS and try to brag at least be good at it and don't get caught out lying! Change your signature Mr Audi A1 TFSI Sline!!!

But just so we're clear, I still don't see anything you've written that forms a credible argument for a current buyer to choose a 2.0 over a 2.2/2.5 or 3.0! If anything your ramblings just reinforce your clueless, or maybe you've got distracted from the actual point of all of this whilst curtain twitching at your imaginary R8!

I'll leave you to get back to playing with your imaginary toys,!

"imaginary toys"


Lol What a legend

Guess i better go call the AA to fix my "unreliable" Z4, see ya

:withstupid:
SEE YA MR AUDI A1 TFSI Sline!!!

 

[ESP]

I'm not trying to come across as hating on the 2.0 just for the fun of it but that engine is a nightmare for issues

You should listen to this guy, he knows his stuff
Steer clear

 

[MT94]

I think it will be another year before I will be able to insure anything over a 2 litre unfortunately hopefully I won't find a 2 litre too unreliable
Matt

 

[MACK]

I'm not trying to come across as hating on the 2.0 just for the fun of it but that engine is a nightmare for issues

You should listen to this guy, he knows his stuff
Steer clear

Cant win the argue, then HUMILIATE YOURSELF as being a Billy BS.
You really think anyone who's read this thread is going to follow your advice?!

 

[ESP]

I think it will be another year before I will be able to insure anything over a 2 litre unfortunately hopefully I won't find a 2 litre too unreliable
Matt

I think you'll be very happy and will have years of satisfied driving mate.
Good luck with your search

 

[MACK]

I think it will be another year before I will be able to insure anything over a 2 litre unfortunately hopefully I won't find a 2 litre too unreliable
Matt

Just a couple thoughts, if it is simply insurance that's stopping you going with an i6 engine zed have you tried the specialist brokers rather than just the mainstream comparison sites etc. I always found them to be better on performance cars when I was younger. Chris Knott (forum sponsor) might be worth a call, although its fair to say folks have had mixed results.

You may also want to consider reducing your budget a tad to supplement your insurance for the first year.

whatever you decide good luck with it.

 

[blackabbot]

Cant see the point in falling out over which is the best engine in a Zed

 

[coaldust]

Hi there thanks for your replies the reason why I'm going for the 2.0 as the insurance for me on anthing over a 2.0 is just too much and it had been driven so the car was warm when I started it again and as I pull away from the curb that's when the smoke kicked out the back.
As for maintenance other than yearly servicing what else does frequently go wrong with these.
As you can probably tell I'm completely new to all of this as I'm coming out of a 1.4 clio
Cheers
Matt

you can't get a z4 with a 4 pot , oh Christ no. the 2.0 z4 should not exist.

 

[dpbayly1]

the 2.0 engine isn't the one to go for the 3.0 is. it's a much more reliable engine. why are you looking at a 2.0?

I personally wouldn't bother with the 2.0 zeds in the e85 shape - even if in good condition it'll still be under powered and prone to a lot of issues !

Absolute Rubbish! Do you guys just make this stuff up randomly lol :thumbsdown:
Your suggesting the 3.0 is reliable while the the 2.0 unreliable? There BOTH solid engines and both renowned for being reliable, if anything the 2.0lt engine is one of the most reliable engines in circulation and has LESS issues than the 3.0lt.

Ultimately the 3.0lt Z4 the better one to go for in the sense that its more powerful, more tuneable, but dont make up nonsense about reliability.

Sorry but I'm with Sonny and Ryan on this one.

I'm talking from experience so not "made up nonsense" and the N46 engine is not a great engine and one to avoid in ALL models IMO, I've had to carry out timing guide changes on many of these engines in e90's and a E85 as well as changing many Valvetronic motors this is the electronic version of the mechanical variable valve timing Vanos found in the straight six lumps I have had to replace a few of theses and I have had to perform end stop resets on these as a common practice too.

Lastly the far more expensive fault that can occur with the N46 is there excessive consumption of oil, dealers know of the issue and say up to 1ltr every 600 miles is acceptable so there saying it could need up to 25 ltrs to be added between 15-16k services not acceptable if you ask me, I know this as I have a customer that has been unfortunate to have had his timing guides go so we changed them and the chain and he had approached his dealer to ask about the consumption problem he has after his warning light comes on frequently and thats what they told him which he said is also echoed on the forums that he's read up on, it's an issue with the stem seal going hard, if he lets his idle for more than 30-45 seconds when he drives off it smokes as well as on start up.

I've never had any M54's in for timing guide/chain faults the vanos can sometimes get a little noisy but it has no effect on it's performance and I don't think I've ever looked at an excessive oil consumption fault with the straight six.

Now thats not to say there are lucky reliable N46's out there but I've simply highlighted common expensive issues that I have experience with in my garage.

The only common fault across the M54 I have seen a lot of is oil leaks from cam cover and oil filter housing to block both of which are a cheap fix.

So in my professional opinion I would always advise the straight six over the 4 pot.

 

[coaldust]

the 2.0 engine isn't the one to go for the 3.0 is. it's a much more reliable engine. why are you looking at a 2.0?

I personally wouldn't bother with the 2.0 zeds in the e85 shape - even if in good condition it'll still be under powered and prone to a lot of issues !

Absolute Rubbish! Do you guys just make this stuff up randomly lol :thumbsdown:
Your suggesting the 3.0 is reliable while the the 2.0 unreliable? There BOTH solid engines and both renowned for being reliable, if anything the 2.0lt engine is one of the most reliable engines in circulation and has LESS issues than the 3.0lt.

Ultimately the 3.0lt Z4 the better one to go for in the sense that its more powerful, more tuneable, but dont make up nonsense about reliability.

Sorry but I'm with Sonny and Ryan on this one.

I'm talking from experience so not "made up nonsense" and the N46 engine is not a great engine and one to avoid in ALL models IMO, I've had to carry out timing guide changes on many of these engines in e90's and a E85 as well as changing many Valvetronic motors this is the electronic version of the mechanical variable valve timing Vanos found in the straight six lumps I have had to replace a few of theses and I have had to perform end stop resets on these as a common practice too.

Lastly the far more expensive fault that can occur with the N46 is there excessive consumption of oil, dealers know of the issue and say up to 1ltr every 600 miles is acceptable so there saying it could need up to 25 ltrs to be added between 15-16k services not acceptable if you ask me, I know this as I have a customer that has been unfortunate to have had his timing guides go so we changed them and the chain and he had approached his dealer to ask about the consumption problem he has after his warning light comes on frequently and thats what they told him which he said is also echoed on the forums that he's read up on, it's an issue with the stem seal going hard, if he lets his idle for more than 30-45 seconds when he drives off it smokes as well as on start up.

I've never had any M54's in for timing guide/chain faults the vanos can sometimes get a little noisy but it has no effect on it's performance and I don't think I've ever looked at an excessive oil consumption fault with the straight six.

Now thats not to say there are lucky reliable N46's out there but I've simply highlighted common expensive issues that I have experience with in my garage.

The only common fault across the M54 I have seen a lot of is oil leaks from cam cover and oil filter housing to block both of which are a cheap fix.

So in my professional opinion I would always advise the straight six over the 4 pot.

as you can see i did not comment on the reliability of the 2.0 as im sure its a very reliable unit, i just can't imagine driving this car without a straight six engine. the smoothness and sound of the straight six completes the package, its like ordering a tikka masala without the maslala sauce, it should not happen.

 

[jnwright71]

Hi MT94,

I hope your search is going well. It sounds like you have a real dilemma, but in reality you have a good budget and should be able to get a reliable Z in good condition.

As I see things, you could do for:

- A 2L which is cheaper to insure, but potentially less reliable
- 6 cyl which is more expensive to insure, but probably more reliable

So the real decision here is whether the difference in insurance cost is greater or less than the potential cost of repairs with the 2L. You could look at an insurance warranty, but at again is a minefield in terms of risk and what will / will not be covered.

It is also worth considering that forums can created a biased view as people often join to seek assistance with an issue, so there can be thousands out there who are more than happy and hence never join a forum or post about a problem.

At 22 and coming from a Clio, I think you will be happy with any Z. IMO I would go with a 6 cyl but speak to all the specialist insurance brokers first. I have always found Adrian Flux offer really good rates, but I would think there are others around who can get you a quote below £1,000.

Whichever way you go, rest assured that there are loads of really helpful members on this forum who will provide really good advice and guidance - some may even come out and actually help fix an issue for a bacon butty and a cuppa.

Best of luck

 

[dpbayly1]

as you can see i did not comment on the reliability of the 2.0 as im sure its a very reliable unit, i just can't imagine driving this car without a straight six engine. the smoothness and sound of the straight six completes the package, its like ordering a tikka masala without the maslala sauce, it should not happen.

Sorry chap but as you can see I quoted who I was replying too,

It wasn't a reply to your post.

I was simply giving an opinion from someone who has experience with this engine reliability wise.

 

[coaldust]

as you can see i did not comment on the reliability of the 2.0 as im sure its a very reliable unit, i just can't imagine driving this car without a straight six engine. the smoothness and sound of the straight six completes the package, its like ordering a tikka masala without the maslala sauce, it should not happen.

Sorry chap but as you can see I quoted who I was replying too,

It wasn't a reply to your post.

I was simply giving an opinion from someone who has experience with this engine reliability wise.

i know you did not reply to me mate, im just trying to stop the OP making a grave mistake, thats what this forum is for.

 

[MT94]

Thanks again for all of your replies a 2.2 or 2.5 might be do able insirance wise as it sounds like the better car all I need to do is find one that is straight and clean whatever car and engine I get it sounds like there isn't a sortage of knowledge around which is a big help thanks again to all who have given their advice and opinion soon hopefully I'll in my own Z4 learning all about it one way or another
Cheers
Matt

 

[Smartbear]

Didn't realise me wanting a 2.0 could cause so much debate even though it is both entertaining and nice to have people's opinion my budget is roughly £5500 to buy that way it leaves me enough for running and maintaining not to mention insuring it :thumbsdown:
Cheers.
Matt.

There is a 2.5l on autotrader with only 19,000 miles on the clock going for £5,500 - that's like a brand new car! (it is automatic though)

Even though I wouldn't mind an auto I think my insurance might have something to say about me insuring it as a 2.5 comes out well over £1000 for me and I've been driving 5 years so thought it may have come down enough but sadly not so for the sake of my wallet I have to go for the 2.0 maybe one day the insurance companies will stop trying to make me broke

They won't do that, that's why they're called "brokers"
Rob