Advaced Driver Training
- Thread starter AlanJ
- Start date
I've not done the IAM course, but I have done a Driving tuition day at Prodrive in my Subaru, which was excellent with good quality tutors and cured several handling issues I had with the car. 
I've also been on two Wet Grip training days at Rockingham which were FANTASTIC. In fact, they were so good, I'm going again in October with the guys off the Alpina Register (anyone else interested may want to take a look on their forum!). Should be interesting to find the difference between AWD and RWD, especially with winter just around the corner..... :driving:
I've also been on two Wet Grip training days at Rockingham which were FANTASTIC. In fact, they were so good, I'm going again in October with the guys off the Alpina Register (anyone else interested may want to take a look on their forum!). Should be interesting to find the difference between AWD and RWD, especially with winter just around the corner..... :driving:
I've done quite a lot, snow and ice in norway (real snow and ice, not just a wet track 
). When I did close protection in Iraq we had all sorts of training, from J/Y turns to firefights from vehicles, all good fun, and even more fun in big yank pickups! 
Also done off-roading in every type of vehicle possible.
). When I did close protection in Iraq we had all sorts of training, from J/Y turns to firefights from vehicles, all good fun, and even more fun in big yank pickups! Also done off-roading in every type of vehicle possible.
ian in lancs
Member
gannet said:
same for me; excellent course and i too became an observer.
instructormike
New member
Hi Guys,
I'm the trainer that Dan (R26??) refers to in his post above and only spotted this due to my website statistics. But thought I'd drop a line in here just for some informed perspective.
There are various means of obtaining road driver training that are available to non-military/emergency services clients and conversely some rather rigorous ones to achieve the likes of class 1/2 police that are normally only open to service personnel.
The best known is IAM. This is a systematic procedural approach to driving that follows the roadcraft manual (get a copy off Amazon if you are at all interested in improving your driving). The IAM training is managed by volunteers and they do a good job in spending time making people think about their driving. It is NOT performance driver training and has its limitations. It is assessed by serving or retired Police traffic officer. It's a good and useful starting point, but some will hate it. It often confers an insurance saving.
Then there is ROSPA, graded in Bronze, Silver,gold, run on similar guidelines to IAM, but with a little more rigour and requiring re-testing every 3 years. I will declare my interest as a ROSPA advanced accredited instructor. And also an IAM instructor! It's less recognised than IAM but more consistently taught.
There are also a couple of similar advanced tests such as Diamond (RAC).
Then there are ARDS instructors that will teach you how to drive around a track at speed. None of the road driving elements come into this but you will be taught - to varying degrees of competency - how to get a car to brake, turn in, clip and exit. And if you are REALLY lucky, not just for the circuit you are taught on. There are maybe a dozen really good guys out there that with a bit of luck, you may end up with. Younger may be faster but a couple of the oldies know their stuff.
Then there are a few (that I know do a good job - countable on the fingers of one hand ) guys in the UK that will teach something of both.....
I managed to pass ALL the road advanced training courses to the highest attainable standard and realised I had never even been asked or guided to consider the balance of the vehicle. The assessors didn't have a clue. Conversely, I have driven with (and trained) some of the best track drivers and find their road driving skills significantly lacking. This is the problem.
For what it's worth here's my thought(s) for the day.... Can I control my environment(forwards, side and backwards). Can I balance my car (pitch, roll and yaw). Two thoughts. When I press my brake it's the equivalent of pressing the throttle on the car behind. How about a mirror check first in case the guy behind doesn't realise he's about to do this. Second, have I considered that the roll-off from the pedal manages my rate of change of yaw and tyre slip angle? If either of these is something new then maybe you've spent more on the car than the driver. What a daft thing to do...
The funny thing is we all like to spend money on metal. But it's like buying a record vs intellectual property. One is visible; the other, surely not worth paying for?
I have two simple models that should be ultimately attainable. Be able to drive like a class 1 T5 traffic officer, managing environment; Second, to drive like Schuey, managing the car. Both disciplined, both demonstrating unconscious competence. Neither giving that shallow satisfaction of proudly being able to stare at the latest set of 20" wheels.
As a guide I've spent more on my own training than I'd need to buy a nice CSL. But I've also overtaken an F50 and a pair GT3RSs around the 'ring on one lap in a diesel hatchback. Oh and a 430 at Oulton in a 100HP Panda. Sometimes driving is better than the car..... though I do like my M3
MC
I'm the trainer that Dan (R26??) refers to in his post above and only spotted this due to my website statistics. But thought I'd drop a line in here just for some informed perspective.
There are various means of obtaining road driver training that are available to non-military/emergency services clients and conversely some rather rigorous ones to achieve the likes of class 1/2 police that are normally only open to service personnel.
The best known is IAM. This is a systematic procedural approach to driving that follows the roadcraft manual (get a copy off Amazon if you are at all interested in improving your driving). The IAM training is managed by volunteers and they do a good job in spending time making people think about their driving. It is NOT performance driver training and has its limitations. It is assessed by serving or retired Police traffic officer. It's a good and useful starting point, but some will hate it. It often confers an insurance saving.
Then there is ROSPA, graded in Bronze, Silver,gold, run on similar guidelines to IAM, but with a little more rigour and requiring re-testing every 3 years. I will declare my interest as a ROSPA advanced accredited instructor. And also an IAM instructor! It's less recognised than IAM but more consistently taught.
There are also a couple of similar advanced tests such as Diamond (RAC).
Then there are ARDS instructors that will teach you how to drive around a track at speed. None of the road driving elements come into this but you will be taught - to varying degrees of competency - how to get a car to brake, turn in, clip and exit. And if you are REALLY lucky, not just for the circuit you are taught on. There are maybe a dozen really good guys out there that with a bit of luck, you may end up with. Younger may be faster but a couple of the oldies know their stuff.
Then there are a few (that I know do a good job - countable on the fingers of one hand ) guys in the UK that will teach something of both.....
I managed to pass ALL the road advanced training courses to the highest attainable standard and realised I had never even been asked or guided to consider the balance of the vehicle. The assessors didn't have a clue. Conversely, I have driven with (and trained) some of the best track drivers and find their road driving skills significantly lacking. This is the problem.
For what it's worth here's my thought(s) for the day.... Can I control my environment(forwards, side and backwards). Can I balance my car (pitch, roll and yaw). Two thoughts. When I press my brake it's the equivalent of pressing the throttle on the car behind. How about a mirror check first in case the guy behind doesn't realise he's about to do this. Second, have I considered that the roll-off from the pedal manages my rate of change of yaw and tyre slip angle? If either of these is something new then maybe you've spent more on the car than the driver. What a daft thing to do...
The funny thing is we all like to spend money on metal. But it's like buying a record vs intellectual property. One is visible; the other, surely not worth paying for?
I have two simple models that should be ultimately attainable. Be able to drive like a class 1 T5 traffic officer, managing environment; Second, to drive like Schuey, managing the car. Both disciplined, both demonstrating unconscious competence. Neither giving that shallow satisfaction of proudly being able to stare at the latest set of 20" wheels.
As a guide I've spent more on my own training than I'd need to buy a nice CSL. But I've also overtaken an F50 and a pair GT3RSs around the 'ring on one lap in a diesel hatchback. Oh and a 430 at Oulton in a 100HP Panda. Sometimes driving is better than the car..... though I do like my M3
MC
inspectormike - wow - what a great post
Know exactly what you mean about the IAM and different standards - we get some drivers that come to us who have been told by another group that they are test ready. We take them out and want them to do so much more before submitting them to test.
Do you have any experience with the HPC courses etc?
Know exactly what you mean about the IAM and different standards - we get some drivers that come to us who have been told by another group that they are test ready. We take them out and want them to do so much more before submitting them to test.
Do you have any experience with the HPC courses etc?
instructormike
New member
Re HPC courses there are a couple of trainers who act as gateways to HPC and you could find their input useful. The most important aspect of looking at training is the actual act of realising that there is something more to learn than you already know.
Unfortunately, with driving, it is one of the few skill-sets that people presume to know more than they actually do. It's like attending a Script concert and afterwards proclaiming to then know all about music. No-one would ever do that. So, if you could sit for an hour with Alesi you would jump at the chance, knowing that you could learn something. But you wouldn't then turn down an session with Jackie Stewart, or one of the Hendon guys, or a Close protection expert, or Schuey. They would all add to the mix.
In professional life we often pay £600+ to attend a company course for a day, eat the "free" lunch and then put the notes in the filing cabinet. But some complain about spending half that on a 1to1 driving session with someone who really knows their stuff. Crackers! I met a guy who had spent over £5K on his car and yet we drove standard one around the circuit significantly quicker. Ridiculous. But you can't brag about what you can't see.
Buy roadcraft. Read it. Buy Vic Elford's Performance Porsche driving book, read that. Then start to re-assess your own drive. Does your other half complain about your driving and you just say that "well they don't like fast driving". Perhaps they just don't like your manner of driving. I had a girl who booked her husband to do a day with me in his 997 C4S. She emailed me after to say that, although he drove it quicker in some places, it was so much nicer to be in the car. She then wanted me to do a day with her dad (also a Porsche owner) and another friend.
Do you steer the car with the steering wheel or do you use your feet? Weird question? Do you change lanes on the motorway with steering or do you think it across lanes. Again, that seems odd. If it does, perhaps you need some training.
MC
Unfortunately, with driving, it is one of the few skill-sets that people presume to know more than they actually do. It's like attending a Script concert and afterwards proclaiming to then know all about music. No-one would ever do that. So, if you could sit for an hour with Alesi you would jump at the chance, knowing that you could learn something. But you wouldn't then turn down an session with Jackie Stewart, or one of the Hendon guys, or a Close protection expert, or Schuey. They would all add to the mix.
In professional life we often pay £600+ to attend a company course for a day, eat the "free" lunch and then put the notes in the filing cabinet. But some complain about spending half that on a 1to1 driving session with someone who really knows their stuff. Crackers! I met a guy who had spent over £5K on his car and yet we drove standard one around the circuit significantly quicker. Ridiculous. But you can't brag about what you can't see.
Buy roadcraft. Read it. Buy Vic Elford's Performance Porsche driving book, read that. Then start to re-assess your own drive. Does your other half complain about your driving and you just say that "well they don't like fast driving". Perhaps they just don't like your manner of driving. I had a girl who booked her husband to do a day with me in his 997 C4S. She emailed me after to say that, although he drove it quicker in some places, it was so much nicer to be in the car. She then wanted me to do a day with her dad (also a Porsche owner) and another friend.
Do you steer the car with the steering wheel or do you use your feet? Weird question? Do you change lanes on the motorway with steering or do you think it across lanes. Again, that seems odd. If it does, perhaps you need some training.
MC
instructormike
New member
Sorry, CTR! Got mixed up with a Police guy in a Renault. I do a lot of sessions! Hope all is well.
MC
MC
I did the IAM car course and became an observer for a while but let it all lapse. Years ago i did the same for bikes and it seemed to be a lot more useful. I think that the IAM stuff will definitely make you a safer and more aware driver but it does take the fun out it by slavishly following a system. There seemed to be more to gain from the bike course as the potential payback in being a safer rider is much higher- not being dead as one of them. What finished the car observer stint for me was our branch had a contract with a local large company that made all its company car drivers complete it to keep the car. Like working with a group of sullen teenagers in suits! I am not aware that I am still following the system but my problem\accident rate is very low so maybe I am. I also havent had any points since I was 18 but watch out I probably got caught several times on the way home and the letter is in the post. I never found that the insurance companies that gave a discount for the green triangle were that competitive in the first place. The IAM magazine is a real drag, full of retired colonels moaning about other drivers and the ad page is full of special offers on thermal slippers and the like
