35iS diff options

NeilP said:
What is the servicing like for an aftermarket lsd? Does it need fluid changes more regularly or is it pretty maintenance free?

If it's a Helical LSD, these are maintenance free. No special fluids required; just the regular 75w90. We do recommend a fluid change after an initial 500 mile break-in though

If it's a Plate type LSD, these do require to be maintained due to wear parts (i.e Plates). How often, depends on the type of Plates (these differ with each manufacturer) and how aggressive you are. No special fluid is required (contrary to what the LSD manufacturer may try to upsell you on), although you may add some Friction Modifier to reduce NVH
 
I really enjoyed doing mine. But a core exchange is a great idea.

Niel if your thinking about putting an LSD in. You wont regret it buddy.
 
MFactory said:
NeilP said:
What is the servicing like for an aftermarket lsd? Does it need fluid changes more regularly or is it pretty maintenance free?

If it's a Helical LSD, these are maintenance free. No special fluids required; just the regular 75w90. We do recommend a fluid change after an initial 500 mile break-in though

If it's a Plate type LSD, these do require to be maintained due to wear parts (i.e Plates). How often, depends on the type of Plates (these differ with each manufacturer) and how aggressive you are. No special fluid is required (contrary to what the LSD manufacturer may try to upsell you on), although you may add some Friction Modifier to reduce NVH

Thanks for that! That's certainly added some food for though!

Machine monkey said:
I really enjoyed doing mine. But a core exchange is a great idea.

Niel if your thinking about putting an LSD in. You wont regret it buddy.

I've given it some thought. If anything, it'll be going into an e85 if and when I pick one up.
 
Machine monkey said:
I really enjoyed doing mine. But a core exchange is a great idea.

Niel if your thinking about putting an LSD in. You wont regret it buddy.
+1

Great upgrade, even better than adding some ///M badges... :fuelfire:
 
I don't see how all the patent bitching on quaife is relevant.
The patents they hold and have hold are obviously checked by the patent registration authorities, you don't 'just get' a patent.
The patents they hold are obviously about different mechanical details compared with the original gleason design. Otherwise you dont get the patent. That's what a patent is about, and that's why it's expensive. All the checking that has to be done to see if it infringes in other patents.
And apparently it didn't. (internet or not)
Are they important to the customer?
Not at all!
The only thing important to the customer is the product. How and why the product is what it is is only important for the manufacturer and it's competitors.
Anyway we have been living in the internet age for almost 2 decades now so anyone can search for patents held by quaife, or expired patents once hold by quaife, so anyone can make up their minds about that for a long time now.

I don't see that post as a positive advertisement for mfactory at all. It lacks objectivity.
Too bad that they didn't include virtues like 'quality' or 'service', 'warranty' etc etc in their '4 things when choosing a Torque Biasing LSD'.
The only relevant of the four he was able to mention imho was 'Value for money'. The rest was tainted with primitive emotions.

So it should be ( things when choosing a Torque Biasing LSD)
-application
-availability
-quality
-price
-warranty
-service
And maybe some others.


If I 'brag' about 'my quaife' in a bar, everybody will look at me like I'm some kind of idiot and go about their business. And maybe one will ask who is quaife? the rest won't care...
All things you buy for your car and aren't visible to the eye, you buy for yourself. They give you zero 'street cred' or 'curb appeal'
My car looks pretty much stock except for the brakes. So that is what people see and comment on.
And they want to see the supercharger if they know I have it. But if I talk about the cams, the diff, the PU bushings or whatever else, you see their eyes wandering off, theyre not interested.
 
GuidoK said:
I don't see how all the patent bitching on quaife is relevant.
The patents they hold and have hold are obviously checked by the patent registration authorities, you don't 'just get' a patent.
The patents they hold are obviously about different mechanical details compared with the original gleason design. Otherwise you dont get the patent. That's what a patent is about, and that's why it's expensive. All the checking that has to be done to see if it infringes in other patents.
And apparently it didn't. (internet or not)
Are they important to the customer?
Not at all!
The only thing important to the customer is the product. How and why the product is what it is is only important for the manufacturer and it's competitors.
Anyway we have been living in the internet age for almost 2 decades now so anyone can search for patents held by quaife, or expired patents once hold by quaife, so anyone can make up their minds about that for a long time now.

I don't see that post as a positive advertisement for mfactory at all. It lacks objectivity.
Too bad that they didn't include virtues like 'quality' or 'service', 'warranty' etc etc in their '4 things when choosing a Torque Biasing LSD'.
The only relevant of the four he was able to mention imho was 'Value for money'. The rest was tainted with primitive emotions.

So it should be (which diff to get)
-application
-availability
-quality
-price
-warranty
-service
And maybe some others.


If I brag about 'my quaife' in a bar, everybody will look at me like I'm some kind of idiot and go about their business. And maybe one will ask who is quaife? the rest won't care...

First of all, my post wasn't an "advertisement", far from it. I'm not a sponsor on here, so I cannot advertise on here. It was simply a post to clarify between the 3 main types of Torque Biasing differentials, which I believe I have done. No objectivity at all, as it was not needed simply because my post was NOT an advertisement promoting any LSD over another.

Second, there was no patent bitching. When supporters of a particular brand "support" their brand, they almost always mention the "patent" thing as if it's the determining factor in quality and/or originality, which is far from the truth. Quaife's patent on the ATB was for their 6pcs of cone washers and was for Europe Only. When they applied for their patent, there were no other Torque Biasing differentials being manufactured in Europe, as Gleason in the US were the only ones. Every wondered why Quaife never took out a patent in North America? You already answered that question in your reply. Also, patents aren't expensive. You could easily apply for a patent and only be out a few thousand dollars. As for the internet thing, unless you were military (as that is what the internet was originally designed for), I don't think you could search online for patents back in the 80's nor early 90's.

As for your "virtues", these were all included; if you were to read through again, you will see I mention which has the better quality, better warranty, guarantee etc. Again, NOT an advertisement, so there is only so far I can go in my post without getting warned/banned, hence why I never posted up about pricing etc

And at the end of the post, I even mention which type of LSD would be better for what type of application.

Of course, I could post up a comprehensive list with tally points detailing everything you require in your "list", but again, that would be deemed as advertising (my username doesn't exactly hide my relationship with one of the LSD manufacturers), so I never done that.

Instead, as mentioned, I just posted up to "inform" people about the 3 main types of Torque Biasing differentials. No advertisement, no hard sell. Just facts with a little bit of light humour thrown in (hence the Bragging rights bit in my list).

I know you are a Quaife user, but please, relax. No one is saying your LSD is inferior; in contrary, I highly rate the Quaife, just like I highly rate the Wavetrac. A consumer could own any of the above mentioned differentials and will be happy.

Maybe I should make a new username to post up with, so people don't think I'm "advertising" and bashing on other companies? But then people will probably start saying I'm hiding behind an alternate identity etc etc and will still get flamed for it....can't win either way, can you?........
 
Ok, what I was trying to say is that it's more informing to regard the products itself and the included services etc than what patents they hold etc.
So what you're physically paying for.
The patents nowadays give a good insight on what you can get, and what the competition doesnt have unless they're licenced. So they can only give an informative insight, although its not always light reading....but they do give minute details and tidbits of information.
The only other thing you could conclude on the patents is that you're dealing with a company who does structual research and developments, otherwis they wouldn't be able to get any patents in the first place. But you're buying their product, not a patent.

I don't know if it's important in the UK (as it is often very important in the US), but if you buy quaife you're supporting an English company, and with Wavetrac an american company.
I'm neither english or american, so I'm not biassed in that way :)
 
Thank you for your understanding :)

As mentioned though, as much as I would have liked to go into more detail into each "offering", I simply can't do that because of my username (and thus my association with one of the manufacturers). If I done that, everyone would say I'm being biased (which I obviously would be, but then, everything I say would also be the truth, not hard sell) and then be accused of advertising when I'm not.

You are correct, there is a lot of patriotism when it comes to "supporting your fellow countrymen", hence my light humour. But at the end of the day, those consumers are not what matters; what matters are the consumers who want "value for money", which is a combination of Quality, Function, Support and Price; NOT just price.

Applying for and getting a patent nowadays is so cheap and easy that there comes a point where you think to yourself; is it really worth the time/effort? Especially so in a very niche market with complex parts that are not-so-easy to copy. This isn't an exhaust or an alloy wheel; this is a precision component requiring precision instruments to create. Sure, Mainland China (so as NOT to confuse this with Taiwan. Different country altogether) have attempted it (OBX is the biggest example), but have failed badly with their Swiss Cheese Housings and Crumbling gear teeth.
 
Have an M Factory LSD in my car. It's been in 2 years now and it's been perfect. Done two track days with it and will be doing a 3rd next week.
A must modification for our Z's
 
So I am I right in assuming the final drive will be different if I buy an M factory diff for my 35iS ?

Or will it stay the same ?
 
With the 35i, the ring gear is welded onto the oem differential, so to install an LSD, you either have to

1) machined it off, machined it flat, have it tapped, machine a spacer, purchase ring gear bolts, then reinstall onto the new LSD. This is a very precise job; not many machine shops can do this
2) purchase a pre-machined oem 2.56 ring & pinion (they must be used in pairs. You cannot mix and match) and ring gear bolts to use with the new LSD
3) purchase an aftermarket ring & pinion (various ratios available) and ring gear bolts to use with the new LSD
 
stuartinzg said:
MFactory said:
NeilP said:
If it's a Helical LSD, these are maintenance free. No special fluids required; just the regular 75w90. We do recommend a fluid change after an initial 500 mile break-in though

This could be very expensive for us DCT boys ...

1.5l is all the carrier takes. No more expensive than any other BMW rear-end (it's the exact same rear-end as that in the 135i/335i, except slightly different mounting points)
 
MFactory said:
With the 35i, the ring gear is welded onto the oem differential, so to install an LSD, you either have to

1) machined it off, machined it flat, have it tapped, machine a spacer, purchase ring gear bolts, then reinstall onto the new LSD. This is a very precise job; not many machine shops can do this
2) purchase a pre-machined oem 2.56 ring & pinion (they must be used in pairs. You cannot mix and match) and ring gear bolts to use with the new LSD
3) purchase an aftermarket ring & pinion (various ratios available) and ring gear bolts to use with the new LSD

Is this the same for the 35iS (not 35i) ?

If so, do you have any names of good suppliers for option 3 ? With the same ratios as OEM.
 
Yes, it is the same.

The oem ratio is 2.56, so you can choose either oem or aftermarket. For aftermarket, there is only 1 company that offers this. Again, I can't really mention pricing though otherwise I would probably get warned/banned for advertising ;)
 
Wondermike said:
What alternative final drives are available? Why don't you want a shorter one Stuart?

Standard oem ratios are 2.56, 2.81, 3.08 and 3.46. There are shorter ratios available from BMW Motorsport, but those cost around $3k+ for the Ring & Pinion
 
MFactory said:
Yes, it is the same.

The oem ratio is 2.56, so you can choose either oem or aftermarket. For aftermarket, there is only 1 company that offers this. Again, I can't really mention pricing though otherwise I would probably get warned/banned for advertising ;)

I've sent you a PM, thanks
 
stuartinzg said:
Wondermike said:
What alternative final drives are available? Why don't you want a shorter one Stuart?

Not sure why I would want a shorter one, I just want OEM but with an LSD

If you go shorter your 1st gear will become totally useless, especially if you will be tuning to more BHP.
Especially if you use street legal tyres.
And highway cuising will be less comfortable.

Only cars with low bhp sometimes benefit from short final drives.
With high HP you may want some of the higher gears shorter, but that requires a complete new gearset in the gearbox, and that's pretty expensive.

Most high power sportscars (corvettes, lambo's, ferraris) have a long 1st gear, they sometimes go over 60mph in 1st.. (of course aided with the high revlimiter). With a shorter gear they cant use the torque, and some even have a torque limiter in the lower gears (like the corvette)
 
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