3.0si Manual VS 3.0i Automatic...

The auto makes doing 0-60 and optimising the power you have basically as simple as pushing the pedal to the floor.

Doing the same in the manual is lots harder.

A driver 100% on the ball with a perfect launch, perfect starting gear for the speed (40mph onwards), and quick smooth changes, would see the Si pull the sort of gap the auto 3.0i was pulling over the Si in these clips.

Just who is willing to drive their manual like that all the time to get good at it? While the auto driver essentially just says "all go" and the auto does it perfectly for you.


I'll do some 0-60's at some stage in my manual 3.0 with the different TC modes and launch techniques and post the G-plots, but I'm pretty certain, done well, a manual 3.0 can dip under 6s, so an Si should be into the 5.5s area... that video looked more like 6.5s


Dave
 
Quite impressed with the auto to be honest and its certainly raised some eyebrows by the looks of this thread.

The difference in performance between the two cars, in the real world, is very little. Over a country road the cars are evently matched, over a drag strip it is a slightly different story. Top end on a motorway and the si is off, albeit very slowly.

In the past I've used a G-Tech accelometer and the car does 0-62 in 6.2 all day long and each and every time. Not tried the foot on the brake and rev start for fear of ruining my brakes.

In the 40-100mph I took my foot off the throttle as soon as I moved the camera away, listen to the engine note dip, hence the reason Toms seems to suddenly fly away.

So the moral of the story, Joes Bloggs shouldnt be drag racing an auto off the line in his manual, that said, on a track the manual would be quicker in the right hands. :thumbsup: :fuelfire:

Anyone see Topgear last night and the new Merc CLK AMG black? Thats an automatic. :) :wink:

For my purposes the car fits the bill, is a good compromise and performs just as well as a manual in the real world. 8)

...one things for sure, anyone with a 2.5si with ideas of grandure in comparison to the "old" engine will be in for a nasty wakeup call should they race a 3.0i off the line!
 
DannyBoy said:
In the past I've used a G-Tech accelometer and the car does 0-62 in 6.2 all day long and each and every time. Not tried the foot on the brake and rev start for fear of ruining my brakes.

In the 40-100mph I took my foot off the throttle as soon as I moved the camera away, listen to the engine note dip, hence the reason Toms seems to suddenly fly away.

So the moral of the story, Joes Bloggs shouldnt be drag racing an auto off the line in his manual, that said, on a track the manual would be quicker in the right hands. :thumbsup: :fuelfire:
Click to expand...

I use a G-tech Pro RR, pretty handy little tool really.

I rekon the manual will match the auto nicely, it's just as said, you HAVE to be harsh with it... Most manual owners will likely never do full-bore DTC/DTC off standing starts with tyres spinning away, so they will never get the sub 6s 0-60 times.

I rekon an SMG with launch control would do the job a reluctant to batter their cars tyres/transmission will and get sub 6s 60mph times all day long.


But thats it, out on the road it takes ALOT of power to make big differences. I chased my good friend off a roundabout, him in 2nd, me in 3rd, with him in a Focus ST170, and I couldn't close the gap at all significantly... being slower onto the power and in the wrong gear is easily enough to offset a 40bhp or so difference (as we see in these videos, and in my experience)

Dave
 
Looks like fun, but it's hardly the test to answer all tests.....come back when you've done 9 more or maybe 99 more :P

Joking aside, as others have said, both cars driven off the line by identical drivers the manual would win, be it the 3.0 vs. 3.0auto or 3.0si vs. 3.0auto, plus as others have also pointed out 3rd gear at 40 puts the 3.0si at an immediate disadvantage.
 
I'm surprised at the 3.0si owners reactions to these videos. Its a bit sad really that your accusing t20lau of fluffing the start etc etc. Is it that hard to believe that the extra weight and reaction times mean the 3.0i Auto is pretty much the same to a manual 3.0si?
 
ElegantSpoon said:
I'm surprised at the 3.0si owners reactions to these videos. Its a bit sad really that your accusing t20lau of fluffing the start etc etc. Is it that hard to believe that the extra weight and reaction times mean the 3.0i Auto is pretty much the same to a manual 3.0si?
Click to expand...

Seriously - watch the vid! I think we're more questioning the conclusions being drawn rather than the driving itself. I don't want to offend t20lau at all as that's really not on, as this is supposed to be a friendly forum; BUT clearly he didn't react as quickly from a standing start, or DannyBoy jumped the start!

Also, from 40, starting in 3rd is going to put him at a huge disadvantage - in fact this just goes to show how much faster the 3.0Si would be - imagine him being in second, revs probably around 4500 - 5000 (bit of a guess, but shouldn't be too far out) rather than say 2500 and he would have shot off. That he didn't lose any ground just shows the difference.

I would like to be 'Oh wow - look how similar the cars are, amazing how a slushbox and lower power engine make no difference' - but I would be lying!!!!
 
Thats a fair comment csmith :) I understand where your coming from and it would be interesting to see the difference of excelerating @40 in second instead of third. In t20lau's difference I would have used third and thats probably why I suck at racing!
 
ElegantSpoon said:
Thats a fair comment csmith :) I understand where your coming from and it would be interesting to see the difference of excelerating @40 in second instead of third. In t20lau's difference I would have used third and thats probably why I suck at racing!
Click to expand...

Thanks fella - I'm not saying I would be ANY better! haha
 
It all boils down to how hard you want to press your manual tranny--close to redline or more conservative? Autos won't as easily let you over-rev. Is it worth the possible engine/transmission damage to take off split seconds and blow off some testosterone?

I think most of us are "middle" drivers-we're not stodgy slowpokes, nor are we laying rubber at each and every light. There was a good article in Roundel last year--cars are so good now, you're getting 0-60 times you used to have to buy an exotic to get and now you have to spend large money for tenths of seconds returns. Now what will beat you is someone with faster reaction times and more willing to *really* push their car to the breaking point rather than raw displacement and horsepower.
 
Well guys seems my car is one of a kind.

On my way into Manchester this morning and pulled up next to a new shape R32. The road was predominently dry but perhaps a little damp. Well you can imagine what happened next.....

Through 1st and 2nd I gained a lead of approx 3 car lengths and kept pulling upto about 70 when I slowed down and he flew past. No idea if his car was a manual or DSG but I did leave hiim in my wake fairly convincingly. No idea what the 0-60 is on thos but expect it to be pretty similar.... :thumbsup:
 
The R32 is heavy (almost 1600kg) and has about 250BHP - claimed figures are about 6 seconds to 60.

Of course, obviously he was drag racing you as much as you think....
 
ElegantSpoon said:
Is it that hard to believe that the extra weight and reaction times mean the 3.0i Auto is pretty much the same to a manual 3.0si?
Click to expand...

Yes :P

More power, more torque, better gear ratios, and full lockup through the clutch in every gear (3.0 Si manual) means it should dispatch the automatic every time.

Of course, I'm not knocking t20lau's ability to drive the car off the line quickly, I wouldn't want to burn away tyres and clutch to prove a point every day, and it proves the point that an automatic is very capable for outright acceleration and making driving fast very easy for the driver.

But in the extreme, getting the best from the manual, it is more capable.
 
csmith319 said:
The R32 is heavy (almost 1600kg) and has about 250BHP - claimed figures are about 6 seconds to 60.

Of course, obviously he was drag racing you as much as you think....
Click to expand...

Certaintly was, with him being one of those tw@ts that races past people in which ever lane was free without indicating. He;d been tailing me for about 2 miles before undertaking me. Next set of traffic lights...... and he was most certainly trying cited by the amount of smoke coming from his exhaust as he flew past. He looked gutted upon pulling off at the next roundabout. :thumbsup:

So whats that I've had in a straight line over the past few days? A 3.0si and an R32. :wink: :poke: :fuelfire:
 
To really answer the question-take the racing off the street and onto a timed distance course. Have the same driver drive both cars.
 
DannyBoy said:
So whats that I've had in a straight line over the past few days? A 3.0si and an R32. :wink: :poke: :fuelfire:
Click to expand...

/pops bonnet and pats his ESS supercharger for another job well done :wink:
 
I live in London. My 3.0i SE will smoke 90% off the lights and up to 60/70. This makes me happy enough.

If you see something not worth taking on, put the roof down, the tunes on and relax.

Just happy to see everyone so passionate about their cars :driving: whether a 3.0i or a 3.0si lets face it, they are both awesome cars. However, I would still rather have the si...
 
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