3.0si Manual VS 3.0i Automatic...

[Breaker]

Just goes to show that in real driving the auto is not far off, especially as the Si is newer (so probably in better tune) and has all those extra horses.

So an Si auto with the 6 speed box would be faster still, now we need to see Si auto vs ///M :fuelfire:

I'd like to see that also! :fuelfire: :fuelfire:

I think that can be very much down the the driver on the manual. Not saying there is anything wrong with the way the manual is being driven in the vid, just that someone that has better reaction times (I used to do run-what-you-brung drag races and you would be amazed at the different results there from drivers of the same car against each other!) it would have been a lot closer. The driver of an auto just has to take his foot off the brake and press the throttle to the floor. No skill there! :wink: Also was the manual's sport button on, was the traction control on and was there any wheel spin from the manual car? I have done a few "traffic light drags" in mine and it is difficult to get it off the line without the rear wheels spinning (seeing the traction control light flicker when on)! You wouldn't have that problem in the auto.

I have a chipped (will do 55mph!) 50cc Aprillia scooter I ride to work when the traffic is bad, and that is a variomatic auto. Nothing beats that off the lights to about 30mph! I've even beaten an M3 off the lights in that!

All in all that 2nd vid doesn't tell the whole story. :wink:

 

[cj10jeeper]

Sorry to be contrary - but seriously, I think the best is not being got out of the Si in these two comparisons - no way an auto 3.0i is going to be faster, off the line, in any gear etc.

It may however be more difficult to extract the best out of the manual... but if you're in the right gear and floor it at the same time, the manual will win.

It was pretty obvious in the drag from 0 that the Si's start was completely fluffed.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the comment 'It may however be more difficult to extract the best out of the manual'.

On paper of course a newer car, with manual and extra HP is quicker, but the reality is 95% of the time the driver cannot get the best out of it. The manual driver will almost always be in the wrong gear, change too soon, too late, too slowly, etc. etc. The auto will simply sit on near full throttle, kick down if required from a rolling start, etc. and get the best out of the combination.

Without hurting anyone's pride as a manual driver, repeat this a dozen times and the auto will come out top most times, until the once the manual gets it right or it's timed over a speed band where the manual sits in one gear.

Give both to the Stig and of course over any situation the Si will come out top

 

[t20lau]

Sorry to be contrary - but seriously, I think the best is not being got out of the Si in these two comparisons - no way an auto 3.0i is going to be faster, off the line, in any gear etc.

It may however be more difficult to extract the best out of the manual... but if you're in the right gear and floor it at the same time, the manual will win.

It was pretty obvious in the drag from 0 that the Si's start was completely fluffed.

I think you have hit the nail on the head with the comment 'It may however be more difficult to extract the best out of the manual'.

On paper of course a newer car, with manual and extra HP is quicker, but the reality is 95% of the time the driver cannot get the best out of it. The manual driver will almost always be in the wrong gear, change too soon, too late, too slowly, etc. etc. The auto will simply sit on near full throttle, kick down if required from a rolling start, etc. and get the best out of the combination.

Without hurting anyone's pride as a manual driver, repeat this a dozen times and the auto will come out top most times, until the once the manual gets it right or it's timed over a speed band where the manual sits in one gear.

Give both to the Stig and of course over any situation the Si will come out top

+1

 

[t20lau]

 

[Breaker]

Quite a difference there on the front. Would look nice with some 19" CSL rep wheels!

 

[t20lau]

Quite a difference there on the front. Would look nice with some 19" CSL rep wheels!

Yeah I was a little doubtful about the springs lowering the car, but the pictures obviously prove me wrong! Would love the 18" composites tbh, wont be going to 19", got 19" on my VXR and it costs a fortune to replace LOL!

 

[csmith319]

Lowered looks nice - was looking back at mine in the car park this morning - the rear does look a little high. Eibachs have been mentioned here a lot - seem very reasonable.

However - whats the deal with trade in and that sort of thing - I'm planning on only keeping this a year and switching up for an M... maybe i should just keep my wallet in my pocket for now!

 

[csmith319]

Here's a thought - how reliable is the power from an Si compared with the old SE models?

Thinking in comparison with the old E36 M3's - the non-evo's were always known from more relaible power delivery unit to unit compared with the later EVO models which were frequently less powerful than they should have been.

Any knowledge out there on this?

 

[GP20]

Still no answer as far as which gear the 3.0Si was in when the race started at 40mph. From the video it seems like not long after the race started there was a gear change in the 3.0i, which really doesn't make sense since you can go upto ~90mph in 3rd gear. From the 0-100mph video it seems like the 3.0Si driver flat-out can't drive.

 

[t20lau]

the 3.0si driver can drive thank you very much!

I was sitting in 3rd then we booted it!!!

Why do ppl always assume the driver is at fault?! The 2 cars are virtually the same! The difference is maringal! Your not going to see the si kill the se!!!

 

[csmith319]

the 3.0si driver can drive thank you very much!

I was sitting in 3rd then we booted it!!!

Why do ppl always assume the driver is at fault?! The 2 cars are virtually the same! The difference is maringal! Your not going to see the si kill the se!!!

3rd at 40?! you should have been in second in the power band; the auto would have kicked down to second straight away.

 

[t20lau]

the se mite have had more grip too...

tyres are only 6months old on the se compared to never been changed in the si

 

[GP20]

Why do ppl always assume the driver is at fault?! The 2 cars are virtually the same! The difference is maringal! Your not going to see the si kill the se!!!

Maybe because they saw the video of the race in which the 3.0Si got badly killed off the line? You're right that the 2 cars, despite the slight power difference, are so similar, which is exactly why off the line the difference shouldn't have been that much. We're not talking about RWD vs AWD here.

 

[csmith319]

Why do ppl always assume the driver is at fault?! The 2 cars are virtually the same! The difference is maringal! Your not going to see the si kill the se!!!

Maybe because they saw the video of the race in which the 3.0Si got badly killed off the line? You're right that the 2 cars, despite the slight power difference, are so similar, which is exactly why off the line the difference shouldn't have been that much. We're not talking about RWD vs AWD here.

Disagree - 34bhp more..., manual compared to slushbox - should be clear cut with a clean get away from the lights - very different cars. Si start was fluffed!

 

[GP20]

Not sure what you're disagreeing with. You just re-iterated my notion that the 3.0Si can't drive despite having those advantges.

 

[csmith319]

Not sure what you're disagreeing with. You just re-iterated my notion that the 3.0Si can't drive despite all those things.

Diagreeing that the cars are similar - I don't think they are.

 

[GP20]

Disagree - 34bhp more..., manual compared to slushbox - should be clear cut with a clean get away from the lights - very different cars. Si start was fluffed!

34bhp difference but the 3.0Si weighs slightly more and offsets a little bit of that 34bhp; that 3.0i has slightly more aggresssive gearing than the 3.0Si (3.46 versus 3.23). The 3.0Si 6MT is a quicker car still. But none the less, like I said the 2 cars are similar. Simiarl gearing, simiar weights, similar power outputs (to the ground). I didn't say they're the same. I said similar. Very different carrs? It's not like one is a 300HP 3700lbs AWD versus one that's 3000lbs RWD. The 3.0Si and the 3.0i are just about as similar as it gets for 2 cars that are not exactly the same car/same model.

 

[t20lau]

I just think the si owners on here are, and quite rightly so, defending there own motors...but i dont think i messed up the start!

 

[rollingstone]

FWIW, a couple years back Motor Trend recorded a 0-60 trip of 5.1 sec in a 2007 3.0Si roadster (link below). It's a commonly held belief that BMW and most auto manufactures are a bit conservative on their numbers.

BUT, I assume it's because that most drivers are unwilling or unable to do what it takes to eke out a 5.1 (vs 5.6 manufacturer's time). And we're at a time when cars costing far less are increasingly getting to 60 faster than we do. Unfortunately, here in the States most people still think a straight line is the only measure of performance.

I don't hate to admit that I've been blown off the line by more than one torque monster pickup or even soccer mom who floors her minivan. But, you know, I really don't approach every stop light thinking, "Oh, yeah, it's race time!"

Good vids, though. I'm happy to think we've just got some great cars that are a blast to drive and look great while doing it. And, naturally, computer-driven "automatics" will be able to blip the gears faster than a human hand... but to me nothing beats trip through the manual gates. It's part of the functional/emotional connection with the car.

Cheers.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/convertibles/112_0708_german_roadster_comparison/index.html

 

[mikedav]

LOL at this thread....autos are brilliant, especially the ZF / GM boxes you find in BMWs. However, faster shifts than a manual? Maybe with a hybrid type transmissions such as an SMG (manual box with a hydraulic, computer controlled clutch) or dual clutch set ups like DSG / DCT. Auto's can't and offer less control - that's why their performance figures are always fractionally down on their manual twins, and why every race car on earth isn't an auto with a torque converter.

I agree the differences between two virtually identical cars will be so marginal that on a normal road, different drivers, etc you may not notice...5.7 vs 6.2 is at most a couple of car lengths, and that's assuming you both did perfect starts (magazine testers usually try 10 times before they get close to the 'manufacturers' time). However I have to add myself to the group that thinks the Si driver must have been a bit slow off the line - with a 30BHP advantage (small but not insignificant) and a manual box, the Si should be in front. Besides, third gear at 40MPH?!?!